3.5 - Is your game better?

[diaglo]

I can state with confidence that 3E has made my games better in every way.

well the 2e Holmes made me rethink a few things. but 3e didn't make any notable changes.


tur..3ed i can say with confidence added nothing to my game. in fact, it has caused me to tear my clothes and lament the day...

so 3.11ed for Workgroups adds even less.

 

[KnowTheToe]

What do you want it to do? Play the game for you? Use what you like, ignore what you don't. Play the game as you want to play it. Rules cannot force you to have fun any more than they can force you not to.

I happen to think that regardless of whether or not people like or use the 3.5 rules, in whole or in part, they have succeeded wonderfully in doing something they were never actually intended to do, but that desperately needed doing - get gamers off their fat, rotting, unused imaginations and put them back to work. I simply am unable to conjure up sympathy for anyone who seems to expect WotC to A) run their game for them, and B) provide infallible rules that will be universally loved and accepted.

Adapt, improvise, overcome, and roll dice.

I think you and one or two others misinterpreted my intentions. I was stating, although the rules are slightly better, they do not seem to change the game enough to be worth the time and money involved. It is not the $100 for the three books, it is more the time required to convert all of the old material and the money spent buying 3.5 versions of many of my 3rd party material. I feel I have to switch to 3.5 if I am going to continue in the hobby, otherwise all new materials are near worthless to me and it will get difficult finding new players.

Again, I like the changes, but they were not necessary. The old system was still thriving.

The changes are similar to MS upgrades from Win98 to Win 98 2nd edition and the ME. Sure there were changes, some of them even beneficial, but it was really not a new system and was not really necessary and was definitely not worth the price of a new OS.

I do have to say I have enjoyed this thread. I did want to hear what people thought of 3.5 now that they have had in for a little bit, not what they thought of my opinion. My goal was not to persuade anyone to dislike it, but to see if I was in the minority or to see if I was overlooking something. From what I have read, most people like at least some of the rules and many people think they were not necessary, but just as many people are happy with the new rules and attribute them to making their games better.

 

[Desdichado]

How many changes do you need to make, anyway? The only 3.5 book I have, for instance, is the MM, and that hasn't affected my 3.0 game much at all to use it.

 

[barsoomcore]

I found the 3.5 PHB worth having just for the clarifications it provided -- my campaign is so massively house-ruled to begin with (no non-humans, no spellcasters, yada yada yada) that things like changes to rangers and druids don't make no nevermind to me, 'cause I don't have rangers and druids.

But the improved skill list and presentation, the improved combat chapter and the general clean-up and clarity have made my game better, no doubt.

No interest in buying DMG or MM -- the SRD provides me with all I need that way.

 

[KnowTheToe]

How many changes do you need to make, anyway? The only 3.5 book I have, for instance, is the MM, and that hasn't affected my 3.0 game much at all to use it.

I bought all three books, I was actually excited about them. But as I think about some existing PrCs from the splatbooks, especially things based on the druid and ranger, I wonder if they are even usable. Not that I really care, I don't use PrCs too often. Which things from FR or classes from KoK mesh well, which do not?

For the most part I will not bother converting adventure stats blocks. If I see the fight is going much worse than anticipated or going too easy, as the DM I can modify things.

IMO, since many things may be redone, such as the splat books, and psi book (most of the major books from WoTC), it is really a completely new version that uses the same engine and design.

 

[VorpalBunny]

I like the clarifications made to combat in the 3.5 PHB, and the changes in spells (I've hated harm since 1e). My players are digging the changes to the Ranger and Druid, and the new damage reduction system seems to be going over well.

I love the new monster manual. Demons and devils are real challenges now, and monster creation is clarified. Not to mention illustrations for each creature, monsters organized by name, stats that include BAB and grapple mods - oh baby.

Having said that, there are a lot of things in 3.5 I don't like: The overwhelming emphasis on miniatures. The new creature "spacing" rules make no sense to me. While I understand the logic behind them, the new diagonal movement rules overly complicate the game. The new rules for cover are overly simplistic. Converting material from 3.0 to 3.5 is not as easy as WotC lead us to believe. I hate the lack of "mastery" - they've changed everything in 3.5 just enough so that I have to look up the most basic stuff to make sure it wasn't changed.

While I'm not sorry I bought 3.5, I think that most of the changes that were made could have been included in Unearthed Arcana or should have been put off until 4e.

 

[Psion]

I am finding that I need a few tweaks, but less than I would have if I wasn't just starting a new game. Still, I am using old supplements and refuse to let their value go by the wayside, and that is proving a bit of a task.

For example in the Second World Sourcebook, the Warden classes are central to the book concept, but many of them use negated skills as requirements, and in some cases the replacement skills DON'T make sense for the class. Just how is survival supposed to help me jump around like a crazy ninja?

To fix this, I kept one skill I don't think 3.5 really replaces well -- scry (will save is simple to run, but it makes scrying too difficult.) Other skills I am replacing with feats that emphasize that specific use of the skill, and making those feats prerequisites for the PrCs.

The clearer descriptions are nice, but sort of non-essential considering we have most of the complicated things figured out already.

Of course, the biggest ease in converting is that fact that there are some new aspect of the rules I won't be using. Most spells, for example.

DR is still a sticky point for me. I like some of the concepts and how it works when it is applied, particularly when it comes to weapon type -- IME so far, the "bludgeoning" and "piercing" type DR works great. That said, I don't think a lot of creatures that got special DRs should have it. Also, I find making "+" DR into "magic" actively harmful to the self-scaling nature of the creatures with DR.

I am really sort of annoyed at the changes in fiends, WRT both DR and spell like abilities. I am not sure what to do about that, yet. I did think that fiends needed something. I was appalled at how fast my old D&D party took out a nalfeshnee!

 

[Psiblade]

For my home group, converting has worked out well. Classes that were underpowered in 3.0 such as bard, ranger, and monks are much more usable in 3.5. The daily buff sessions are gone. Enemy spellcasters are much easier to deal with because of the haste and harm changes. No more chain casting of fireballs and harm. The only change that has been painful is the new DR. Golems in particular are much harder to deal with now. I will have a lot more info when Living Greyhawk changes on October 1st. The LG folks have posted the changes to prestige classes in the builder books for 3.5 that LG will use.


-Psiblade

 

[DM2]

I have to jump in with an "I like it a lot, and it has helped my games" as well. We've now seen someone play a druid for the first time, our bard became more useful and fun, and I love the new DR system and monster manual changes as a DM.

DM2

 

[Arnwyn]

I am really sort of annoyed at the changes in fiends, WRT both DR and spell like abilities. I am not sure what to do about that, yet. I did think that fiends needed something. I was appalled at how fast my old D&D party took out a nalfeshnee!

One of my biggest annoyances as well.

For the Sp abilities of fiends, I simply took my 3.0 MM and typed all their Sp abilities onto a nice Word document, but in 3.5 format (ie. includes the save DC for each spell, if applicable). Printed it off (2 pages, one for demons and one for devils) and inserted them into the appropriate section of the 3.5 MM.

Works for me - I use the 3.5 version of the demon/devil, but they have all their 3.0 spell-like abilities.