D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Monks and two weapons

[Camarath]

If the scans of the PHB 3.5 from www.gamingreport.com are accurate this is what the new entry says:

"When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with speical monk weapons(kama, nunchaku,quarter staff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and speical monk weapons interchangeably.."

So, to me at least, prevents you from making unarmed attacks mixed with armed attacks with flurry of blows (of course i am including the monk weapons in the unarmed portion).

I have the book and they are. The quarterstaff is a double weapon and a monk weapon and the other monk weapons are light. Nothing in the Flurry of Blows entry says you can't use them and TWF, only that Flurry of Blows work with monk weapons and unarmed attacks only. With out a rule saying that you can't use TWF and Flurry of Blows I am inclined to say that you can as long as you use monk weapons.

If you wanted to attack with say a sword AND an unarmed attack you would have to rely on the Two weapon fighting rules as normal and could not use FoB.

That would be true since swords are not monk weapons.

 

[Silver Griffon]

What about in the description of the revised Two Weapon Fighting? Does it shed any light?

 

[Gilwen]

Does the book say the TWF and FOB stack?

A lvl one monk gets 1 attack. Using a quarter staff with FOB gives him 2 attacks @ -2.

A lvl one monk using a quarter staff with TWF gets 2 attacks at
-[insert two weapon fighting penalty here].

Unless I am missing something here FoB is the better option because it acts like TWF and Ambidex for monk weapons and unarmed attack.

Bryan

I have the book and they are. The quarterstaff is a double weapon and a monk weapon and the other monk weapons are light. Nothing in the Flurry of Blows entry says you can't use them and TWF, only that Flurry of Blows work with monk weapons and unarmed attacks only. With out a rule saying that you can't use TWF and Flurry of Blows I am inclined to say that you can as long as you use monk weapons.



That would be true since swords are not monk weapons.

 

[Camarath]

Two-Weapon Fighting
Prerequisite: Dex 15
Benefit: Your penalties on your attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and your off hand lessens by 6.
Normal: See Two-Weapon Fighting, page 160, and table 8-10; Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties , page 160


Page 160 says nothing about monks not being able to use TWF. I think it would be a stretch to say that Flurry of Blows precludes TWF.

 

[Camarath]

But there is no point in using TWF with Flurry of Blows. Flurry of blows gives you an extra attack. The book doesn't say TWF and FOB stack does it?

Ahh... IMO all abilities which give you additional attacks stack. I have found no rule to say that they do not. And, I would think it logical that they would stack.

 

[Camarath]

Does the book say the TWF and FOB stack?

Now you have gone and change the post. No it does not state they stack but it doesn't state that they don't stack either.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

None of the TWF rules that I see specifically prohibit its combination with a Flurry of Blows.

A potential argument against is that Flurry of Blows is a unique special ability action that requires a full attack action, and this precludes making a full attack that incorporates TWF -- but that's pretty shaky logic.

I suspect that the intent of the rules is not to allow them to combine (since part of the point of the Monk's FoB is it IS TWF, and actually better), but it would be nice if the rules specifically addressed it.

 

[Camarath]

The weapon enchantment Speed grants an additional attack which I would assume stacks with all other additional attacks (except Haste which it states it does not stack with). Are you saying that this additional attack would not stack with one (or more) granted by TWF or FoB?

 

[Gilwen]

Two-Weapon Fighting
Prerequisite: Dex 15
Benefit: Your penalties on your attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and your off hand lessens by 6.
Normal: See Two-Weapon Fighting, page 160, and table 8-10; Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties , page 160


Page 160 says nothing about monks not being able to use TWF. I think it would be a stretch to say that Flurry of Blows precludes TWF.

Looking at the monks write up I see that when she is unarmed there is no such thing as an off hand, therefore couldn't apply TWF when using her unarmed attacks because the book states that there isn't one when unarmed.
One would think it applies to the monk weapons as well, but there is no written rule that says that the text in the Unarmed Strike section applies to the monks weapons.

Let's assume that you can use TWF with the monks FoB for armed attacks.

Lvl 1 monk unarmed with STR of 10 gets -2/-2 unarmed.

Lvl 1 monk with a quarterstaff with STR 10 get's +0/+0
(since the TWF reduces the penalty and the penalty is -2 I reduced it 0, I suppose one could argue that is should be +0/+4)


Why when the whole concept for the monk is unarmed combat is she better at armed combat when TWF is allowed to stack with FoB?
What happens when the monk reaches 5th level when the penalty becomes -1 and at 9th when the penalty becomes 0?
Does the feat become useless? Or does it start giving you bonuses?


Bryan

 

[Gilwen]

Now you have gone and change the post. No it does not state they stack but it doesn't state that they don't stack either.

I had chaged the post but it was moments after i had written it and you had replied to the post in the mean time and I wasn't aware of your reply until after I changed it. I wasn't try anything sneaky

Bryan