D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Monks and two weapons

[Gilwen]

Interesting. If you are right then I can't wait to have my monk become 20th level and I'll be taking the entire TWF chain.

With FOB I'd get 5 attacks with the TWF chain I'd get what, three more attacks on top of that for off hand attacks?

So I'll have 8 attacks with a weapon. Why would a monk ever want to fight unarmed again?
Edit: add more attacks for Speeded weapons.

Good debate! I have enjoyed it I guess we'll have to watch for errata!

Bryan

 

[Camarath]

I think this would be about as bad as it could get.

Monk lv 12/Ranger lv 8 (using 2 monk weapons or a quarterstaff)
would have a BAB of +17/+12/+7/+2
with FoB +17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+2
with Greater TWF +15/+15/+10/+10/+5/+5/+0
with Greater TWF and FoB +15/+15/+15/+15/+10/+10/+5/+5/+0
with Greater TWF, FoB, and Speed +15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+10/+10/+5/+5/+0
using Shuriken with Greater TWF, FoB, Rapid Shot, and Speed +13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3/-2

 

[Jens]

I am almost sure that monks are not supposed to be able to make off-hand attacks when flurrying with monk weapons, even though there doesn't seem to be any text specifically barring it. The text does say that "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed" but unfortunately there is no sentence such as "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk using flurry of blows", and the description of flurry of blows distinguishes between unarmed strikes and monk weapons when it says that "When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes OR with special monk weapons..."

Unless this loophole is closed by a rule somewhere else (maybe the rules for the full attack action or fighting with two weapons), my guess is that this will be one of the first things in the new FAQ.

 

[Camarath]

Unless this loophole is closed by a rule somewhere else (maybe the rules for the full attack action or fighting with two weapons), my guess is that this will be one of the first things in the new FAQ.

Neither the rules [3.5] for Full Attack of Two Weapon Fighting deal with Flurry of Blows as far as I can see. This maybe an unintentional change. But they did make a double weapon a monk weapon and that might indicate that they may have intended for TWF and FoB to work toghter.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Correct. They are both full round actions and you can't use both.

You're confusing feats, abilities, and actions that allow extra attacks on a Full Attack Action, with feats, abilities, and actions that require you to "take the Full Attack Action, give up your regular attacks and instead do X..."

Circle Kick and Dirty Fighting from Sword and Fist, and (I understand) the revised Whirlwind Attack use the "give up your regular attacks" language.

Rapid Shot, Flurry of Blows, Haste, Weapons of Speed, and Attacking with Two Weapons do not.

-Hyp.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It seems to me that the fact that they give a worked example which includes Ember attacking with both ends of a quarterstaff (the classic double weapon) illustrates quite nicely that their intention is that flurry of blows precludes TFW.

The fact is, when using FoB you don't have an off hand (vis. it specifies that you use your full Str bonus for all successful attacks). Off hand attacks get half Str bonus.

Perhaps they didn't expressly forbid the combination of the two, but their intention seems clear to me (and the potential of a vast number of attacks which would be possible if they *did* allow them to stack is probably unbalancing enough that they would have specifically allowed it if they thought it was a good idea.

I know what'll be happening in my campaigns, that's for sure!

Cheers

 

[Camarath]

Whether or not it was their intention to forbid or allow the combination, they seems to have ignored the issue in the rules. I can see three reasons this might have happened either it was an oversight, they assumed that people would not combin them because they are separate institutions which allow different means for basicly the same thing, or they meant for them to be used in conjunction and did not feel it nessecary to state that they could be. Some clarification would be nice on this issue. It is possible that there are rules in the book that prevent this combination but I can not find them.

 

[Darklone]

Consistency just left the building...

They fixed the monks flurry and the TWF path, but both in different incompatible ways. Monks hit better now but not as often as with ITWF and GTWF.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

For what its worth, here's the Sage's Answer:

<< Can a monk use Two-Weapon Fighting (or Improved Two Weapon Fighting) in conjunction with Flurry of Blows to gain an extra attack, >>


No.

>>or to reduce the penalties for the Flurry of Blows?>>


No.

<< I'm fairly certain the spirit of the rules didn't intend for these abilities to work together, but I can't find anything in the rules that would prohibit it >>

When you use a flurry, you can use a specil monk weapon once as part the flurry. If you use two weapons with a flurry, you use each weapon once as part of the flurry (a quaterstaff is a double weapon and counts as two weapons). You do not get an extra attack for the second weaoon, nor do you suffer any of the usual penalties for attaking with two weapons.

A monk can fight with two weapons and use the varius two-wepoan fighting feats, but the number of attacks the monk gets is based on the monk's normal base attack bonus and number of attacks, not on the monk's number of attacks in a flurry.

 

[Camarath]

When was this posted and where can I find it?