D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5]Montes view: PrClasses?????
Destan
Citizen of Val Hor
Monte said:
"Taking levels of a prestige class now apparently forces you to pay multiclassing XP costs. Whether intentionally or by accident, the prestige class chapter no longer states that they are free of this cost."
And SKR replied:
It's an accident. I discovered this lack of appropriate text a couple of weeks ago and got a confirmation from WotC that prestige classes still do not count toward an XP penalty. It's good that they're keeping that rule, but very very bad that the mention of it was cut from the core book. That mistake is on par with the +10%/+100% magic item pricing error that was accidentally inserted post-design the 3.0 DMG.
"Taking levels of a prestige class now apparently forces you to pay multiclassing XP costs. Whether intentionally or by accident, the prestige class chapter no longer states that they are free of this cost."
And SKR replied:
It's an accident. I discovered this lack of appropriate text a couple of weeks ago and got a confirmation from WotC that prestige classes still do not count toward an XP penalty. It's good that they're keeping that rule, but very very bad that the mention of it was cut from the core book. That mistake is on par with the +10%/+100% magic item pricing error that was accidentally inserted post-design the 3.0 DMG.
Kae'Yoss
First Post
I don't agree with you, Darklone: The idea of Prestigeclasses is a great one, and it's completely optional, so you can ban them without problem (more so now that many of the old 1-level-classes are worth you while all the way), but to punish people who take them, giving them a big penalty to XP they cannot possibly avoid (except with really rediculous multiclassing) is to harsh, as they would lag behind in levels for quite some time. Better introduce only PrC's that you like (flavour over power) than dishing out harsh penalties.
Getting rid of the multiclass restrictions altogether could be a good thing, but that would rob the humans of another advantage.
Personally, I'll either give each player one additional class they can declare as favored class (humans have two classes which can be about anything) - maybe with the inclusion of Prestigeclasses: you can declare the PrC you're going to take as the free favored class, or any core class.
Also, I'll change the "any" of humans and half-elves in that it means that the class that is most advantageous is the favored class: if they do x10/y1/z1, x will be favored, if they do x5/y5/z1, it's z.
Or, I eradicate multiclassing penalties and give humans something to make up for it. With the new racial weapons familiarity, I plan to give it to every race, anyway. Half-elves and half-orcs either get the human part or the other (not decided yet). Humans can choose any one exotic weapon as their familiar weapon. Alternately, it will be determined by clan/family/whatever. In rokugan, the clans will get something appropriate (the Dragon, for example, will get the Katana, to help them with their Niten Technique), and maybe the ethnic groups of the Realms will get something similar.
Getting rid of the multiclass restrictions altogether could be a good thing, but that would rob the humans of another advantage.
Personally, I'll either give each player one additional class they can declare as favored class (humans have two classes which can be about anything) - maybe with the inclusion of Prestigeclasses: you can declare the PrC you're going to take as the free favored class, or any core class.
Also, I'll change the "any" of humans and half-elves in that it means that the class that is most advantageous is the favored class: if they do x10/y1/z1, x will be favored, if they do x5/y5/z1, it's z.
Or, I eradicate multiclassing penalties and give humans something to make up for it. With the new racial weapons familiarity, I plan to give it to every race, anyway. Half-elves and half-orcs either get the human part or the other (not decided yet). Humans can choose any one exotic weapon as their familiar weapon. Alternately, it will be determined by clan/family/whatever. In rokugan, the clans will get something appropriate (the Dragon, for example, will get the Katana, to help them with their Niten Technique), and maybe the ethnic groups of the Realms will get something similar.
Cloudgatherer
First Post
Vecna said:
Just like the 'caster level prerequisite' mistake from 3.0?
The problem is, it not unreasonable. Caster level, as a requirement for making a magic item, doesn't soud so far fetched to people (thus it is still discussed).
I'd imagine this will fall in the same category. Given the potential for PrC abuse, it is not unreasonable to impose the multiclass XP penalty. So, looks like we'll be seeing threads on this for at least a while...
Henry
Autoexreginated
I, on the other hand, LIKE the XP penalty. Not only does it add a bit of flavor, but it gives humans a strong advantage. In fact, the only thing I would change about it is to make humans and half-elves "preferred class: any" to REALLY mean "whichever one they want it to." It would allow for some really varied human base class characters.
Endur
First Post
I think dropping the PRC exemption for multi-classing is a great change.
When PRCs were first introduced, the idea was that a character who was an elite member of a cultural group, could join a prestige class if the GM allowed it. The idea of belonging to multiple PRCs was never imagined.
Now, we have literally 1000's of PRCs in splat books, Dragon Magazine, the internet, D20 books, etc.
So its not uncommon to see PCs with many more PRCs than regular classes.
I know a player who plays a dwarf Ranger/Wizard/Divine Oracle/Deepwood Sniper/SpellSword (and might have another PRC). This PC doesn't suffer a multi-class exp penalty.
I think the idea of having PRCs generate exp penalties just like classes makes perfect sense.
I saw SKR's post, but I'm hoping that the WOTC person he talked to was incorrect and that this is a permanent change.
When PRCs were first introduced, the idea was that a character who was an elite member of a cultural group, could join a prestige class if the GM allowed it. The idea of belonging to multiple PRCs was never imagined.
Now, we have literally 1000's of PRCs in splat books, Dragon Magazine, the internet, D20 books, etc.
So its not uncommon to see PCs with many more PRCs than regular classes.
I know a player who plays a dwarf Ranger/Wizard/Divine Oracle/Deepwood Sniper/SpellSword (and might have another PRC). This PC doesn't suffer a multi-class exp penalty.
I think the idea of having PRCs generate exp penalties just like classes makes perfect sense.
I saw SKR's post, but I'm hoping that the WOTC person he talked to was incorrect and that this is a permanent change.
Kae'Yoss
First Post
Endur said:
I see the problem here, but it's not that PrC's don't incur penalties. It's that the DM allowed him 5 different classes, 3 of which are PrC's.
In a game I play in, I have a similar character: Dwarf with Barbarian, Planar Champion, Templar, Battlerager IIRC. Many of the classes but one level.
Giving all PrC users a penalty just beause of a couple of jerks is a bad thing. Rather give those jerks who misuse it a penalty, like automatic xp penalty after the first PrC or something.
Personally, my tendencies go into the other direction: remove the penalty altogether, or lessen it a bit (another Favored class, to be chosen by the player, for free. This could include PrC's. Also, I'd change the "any" of humans into "whatever is best for calculating multiclassing penalties")
If the XP penalty is meant to represent characters "spreading themselves too thin" then they should apply to PrC after the first.
A fighter/wizard/eldrich knight shouldn't have problems. A fighter/rogue/monk/barbarian/ranger/duelist/bladsinger should. The funny part is that the second character won't have problems since they keep all their levels low. The first is called "following concept" the second is blatant powergaming.
A fighter/wizard/eldrich knight shouldn't have problems. A fighter/rogue/monk/barbarian/ranger/duelist/bladsinger should. The funny part is that the second character won't have problems since they keep all their levels low. The first is called "following concept" the second is blatant powergaming.
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