[3.5] Revision Spotlight - Druid class
- Thread starter Delgar
- Start date
Plane Sailing said:
huh, that's the one part i *didn't* like. Druids have always had perfect knowledge of natural plants (well, D&D druids, that is). And it's not like it's a really unbalancing power. I can understand them going to a skill bonus, but then it should at least be something like +10--that gets it into the realm of "knows everything".
John Crichton
First Post
I like it because it helps distinguish druids of varied levels. I think it's only 'natural' that one druid may know more than another.woodelf said:
Viktyr Gehrig
First Post
woodelf said:
Easy to fix by making the bonus equal to Druid class level. You're only first level for a short time.
Blood Jester
First Post
What am I missing?
edit: reading comprehension is the correct answer kids.
edit: reading comprehension is the correct answer kids.
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Dthamilaye
First Post
Mostly nice changes, I have a player IMC who is now a 12th level druid. He is going to love these changes BUT...
The animal companion seems to be nerfed a lot. We need the list first to make final judgements, but it still seems nerfed.
At the moment, my player has an awakened dire wolf, 2 owls, 5-6 snakes, some eagles, few badgers and some mouses and such as animal companions. He does have that ring that gives 12HD more animal companion slots.
Now it seems that the animal companion thingy is just a normal familiar, like everyone else has. How does the Ring of Animal Friendship change in 3.5? How can druid get 1/2 HD animals for his level + ring hd amount. Maybe like 48 pigeons? Huh?
Otherwise, I love the new druid.
The animal companion seems to be nerfed a lot. We need the list first to make final judgements, but it still seems nerfed.
At the moment, my player has an awakened dire wolf, 2 owls, 5-6 snakes, some eagles, few badgers and some mouses and such as animal companions. He does have that ring that gives 12HD more animal companion slots.
Now it seems that the animal companion thingy is just a normal familiar, like everyone else has. How does the Ring of Animal Friendship change in 3.5? How can druid get 1/2 HD animals for his level + ring hd amount. Maybe like 48 pigeons? Huh?
Otherwise, I love the new druid.
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Li Shenron
Legend
I like basically everything.
Druidic weapons restrictions needed a clear rule to put a line between what is ok and what is forbidden, especially when using equipment from other sources. It was easy for Armors (no armors with metal), but not for weapons; the only other way to fix it would have been to apply the no-metal rule to weapons as well, but it would have reduced the list a lot, and banned some very druid-flavor weapons like the Sickle and the Scythe. The 3.5e decision makes everything simple, and I think it is after all very fine for me; it still takes a feat for the Druid to take a new proficiency so it doesn't make her overpowered, and armor use doesn't change; it is just simply easier to explain and understand.
Skills changes are great. We already got that Intuit Direction goes into Survival, and Scry is either going into Spellcraft or a new simple rule will be provided for using scrying spells. Listen & Spot make very sense for a character who use its senses extensively in the wilderness, and doesn't overpower again since the Druid doesn't get 6 sp/lev as the Ranger
, she just has one sp/level saved from Animal Empathy. Which I am surprised to notice it works by level instead of by skill; I haven't thought about this and I think it's better.
Animal Companions: I should check if a 3e Druid is still ok under the new rules. If it is, it means that the 3.5e rules just expand the possibilities (with possible but not necessary extra abilities taken in exchange with HD?). This of course if there is still the chance to get more weaker Animal Companions instead of only one; if there isn't, it will be probably a house rule because it's been popular in my games. There is probably a section in the PHB with full rules.
To fully understand Wild Shape we probably need to wait for the Polymorph spell? The minor tweaks work fine, again not overpowering. The hours/day limit is not going to break the low-level usefulness and gives an extra (minor) motivation to level up as pure class.
I wonder too if the spell/day progression has a typo rather than a fix... I don't really see why a fix was needed. The spell list is going to be better, we all know in advance.
Nature Sense is quite small, it could be better; it still retains usefulness to Knowledge(Nature). But I really want to keep the ability to spot if water is clear or corrupted, maybe it just becomes part of Kno(Nat).
Spontaneous casting of SNA is not really powerful (but let's see if they changed the summoned animals list!), but adds flavor.
So... it seems the only stuff I dislike it's the pictures. How do I get stunned by this nymph beauty?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A final note.
All class changes I have seen so far seem to imply the will by WotC to motivate a PC to level up in her main class. I think it's a very good attitude: multiclassing remains a great option both for strategy and for RP, but I'd like to be there a good reason also to go further in each class.
I really really really hope that something, anything, has been done in the same direction for Wizards and Sorcerers; although multiclassing is for them mostly useless (except for a couple of levels), there is almost NO REASON not to take a Prestige Class. That should be a viable and enjoyable choice, but definitely not so much convenient that if you don't you are always giving up power and getting Familiar spell resistance in return...
Druidic weapons restrictions needed a clear rule to put a line between what is ok and what is forbidden, especially when using equipment from other sources. It was easy for Armors (no armors with metal), but not for weapons; the only other way to fix it would have been to apply the no-metal rule to weapons as well, but it would have reduced the list a lot, and banned some very druid-flavor weapons like the Sickle and the Scythe. The 3.5e decision makes everything simple, and I think it is after all very fine for me; it still takes a feat for the Druid to take a new proficiency so it doesn't make her overpowered, and armor use doesn't change; it is just simply easier to explain and understand.
Skills changes are great. We already got that Intuit Direction goes into Survival, and Scry is either going into Spellcraft or a new simple rule will be provided for using scrying spells. Listen & Spot make very sense for a character who use its senses extensively in the wilderness, and doesn't overpower again since the Druid doesn't get 6 sp/lev as the Ranger
, she just has one sp/level saved from Animal Empathy. Which I am surprised to notice it works by level instead of by skill; I haven't thought about this and I think it's better.Animal Companions: I should check if a 3e Druid is still ok under the new rules. If it is, it means that the 3.5e rules just expand the possibilities (with possible but not necessary extra abilities taken in exchange with HD?). This of course if there is still the chance to get more weaker Animal Companions instead of only one; if there isn't, it will be probably a house rule because it's been popular in my games. There is probably a section in the PHB with full rules.
To fully understand Wild Shape we probably need to wait for the Polymorph spell? The minor tweaks work fine, again not overpowering. The hours/day limit is not going to break the low-level usefulness and gives an extra (minor) motivation to level up as pure class.
I wonder too if the spell/day progression has a typo rather than a fix... I don't really see why a fix was needed. The spell list is going to be better, we all know in advance.
Nature Sense is quite small, it could be better; it still retains usefulness to Knowledge(Nature). But I really want to keep the ability to spot if water is clear or corrupted, maybe it just becomes part of Kno(Nat).
Spontaneous casting of SNA is not really powerful (but let's see if they changed the summoned animals list!), but adds flavor.
So... it seems the only stuff I dislike it's the pictures. How do I get stunned by this nymph beauty?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A final note.
All class changes I have seen so far seem to imply the will by WotC to motivate a PC to level up in her main class. I think it's a very good attitude: multiclassing remains a great option both for strategy and for RP, but I'd like to be there a good reason also to go further in each class.
I really really really hope that something, anything, has been done in the same direction for Wizards and Sorcerers; although multiclassing is for them mostly useless (except for a couple of levels), there is almost NO REASON not to take a Prestige Class. That should be a viable and enjoyable choice, but definitely not so much convenient that if you don't you are always giving up power and getting Familiar spell resistance in return...
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(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Just look at the progression of the spells.
lets look at 3rd level spells.
5th-1
6th-2
7th-2
8th-3
9th-3
10th-3
and then 4 levels 4.... etc.
And 4th level spells stays 4 levels on 3 a day.. and it should be 3 levels.
So on 13th level 1 4th level spell more...
Robert.
p.s. i hope you understand it, cause i have problems understanding myself....
Fast Learner
First Post
I'm almost positive that Wodland Stride was demonstrated by John Cleese in the now-famouse Ministry of Silly Walks sketch.
Druids play a pretty central role in my campaign, so some of the changes are a little displeasing to me, but that is of course simply my problem.
The flexability with weapons is awesome, brings back the spirit of 1e weapon restrictions where the druid list while smaller than the cleric list was much better in terms of content,(staff and scimitar being the primary example).
A Druid in metal armor is inappropriate, besides making ironwood armor should be a major goal for a druid.
Spontaneous animal summoning is alright, frankly with the lack of outsider templates, most Drudical summonings are underpar for spell caster level in my exprerience. Personaly I would have perfered a more OA shaman addition, with the druid chosing one domain from animal, plant, fire, earth, water, and air, and using that domain,(with bonus spells) exactly like the cleric. I would then allow further domain choices at later levels. 1e druids received more spells per day then clerics, and I have always been a litte disapointed that clerics via domain spells have a little advantage, minor quibble though.
Further minor quibbles are manly based off my current campaign features.
I always explained the all knowing aspect of nature sense as Druids hearing in the back of their minds the "true name" of all animals and plants they see being told to them in drudic, a sort of "gaia's compentary track". The player in my campaign that plays a druid definetely has a somewhat off centered character, so when the party inadvertently discovered that he heard "voices in his head" via a mindreading spell,(trying to discover if a doppleganger had inflitrated the party), it tended to explain some of his excentric behavior,(after of course serving as a nice red herring). Again this is specificaly my problem, and the new mechanic makes more sense.
I do not like the limited time duration of wild shape though. I understand the decision, and compared to the newly limited duration of polymorph is still a substantial amount of time.
Thematically it hurts Druids as being the ultimate surviors though, Rangers might pitch a better tent, but druids dont need tents. If a druid wants to study aquatic life, form of a mackrel. Needs to go to the plane of fire, form of an elemental, so on and so forth.
I probably will keep the unlimited time duration for wildshape.
Overall I like it.
The flexability with weapons is awesome, brings back the spirit of 1e weapon restrictions where the druid list while smaller than the cleric list was much better in terms of content,(staff and scimitar being the primary example).
A Druid in metal armor is inappropriate, besides making ironwood armor should be a major goal for a druid.
Spontaneous animal summoning is alright, frankly with the lack of outsider templates, most Drudical summonings are underpar for spell caster level in my exprerience. Personaly I would have perfered a more OA shaman addition, with the druid chosing one domain from animal, plant, fire, earth, water, and air, and using that domain,(with bonus spells) exactly like the cleric. I would then allow further domain choices at later levels. 1e druids received more spells per day then clerics, and I have always been a litte disapointed that clerics via domain spells have a little advantage, minor quibble though.
Further minor quibbles are manly based off my current campaign features.
I always explained the all knowing aspect of nature sense as Druids hearing in the back of their minds the "true name" of all animals and plants they see being told to them in drudic, a sort of "gaia's compentary track". The player in my campaign that plays a druid definetely has a somewhat off centered character, so when the party inadvertently discovered that he heard "voices in his head" via a mindreading spell,(trying to discover if a doppleganger had inflitrated the party), it tended to explain some of his excentric behavior,(after of course serving as a nice red herring
). Again this is specificaly my problem, and the new mechanic makes more sense.I do not like the limited time duration of wild shape though. I understand the decision, and compared to the newly limited duration of polymorph is still a substantial amount of time.
Thematically it hurts Druids as being the ultimate surviors though, Rangers might pitch a better tent, but druids dont need tents. If a druid wants to study aquatic life, form of a mackrel. Needs to go to the plane of fire, form of an elemental, so on and so forth.
I probably will keep the unlimited time duration for wildshape.
Overall I like it.
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