D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Scry

[Liminal Syzygy]

Some questions on 3.5 Scry:

1)
The Scry spell description reads...

You can see and hear some creature, which may be at any distance...

but then goes on to say

If the save fails, you can see (but not hear) the subject and the subject’s immediate surroundings

Uhhh... So can you hear the subject or not?

2) There is no mention of being able to detect the scry sensor... Is it impossible now? I think an earlier pre-release version of 3.5 included a DC20 intelligence check... but it seems to be gone now. Or is this addressed by...

3) By default (3.5 PH pg. 177) you know when you are targeted by a spell with no obvious physical effects and you make a successful save. Is that the case with scry now? Is that how it can be "detected"? Strange tinglings for no reason in the middle of the day?

 

[Nail]

The "see but not hear" thing has been talked about before as errata. Many have said that the "but not hear" comment is bogus.

I thought I had read in th 3.5e PH that you can spot the magical sensor...but I can't seem to find that passage now.

I hadn't relized their was a rule about "noticing" magical effects that you had saved against. Has this always been that way?

 

[jodyjohnson]

I'd rule that you can see and hear the target, see and hear his environment (water moving, wind, trees, etc.) but not hear those around him (you can see them).

Any nearby with Non-detection abilities would be neither heard nor seen.

 

[xopher]

The section on the Divination school has the following quote:

Scrying: A scrying spell creates an invisible magical sensor that sends you information. Unless noted otherwise, the sensor
has the same powers of sensory acuity that you possess. This level of acuity includes any spells or effects that target you, but
not spells or effects that emanate from you. However, the sensor is treated as a separate, independent sensory organ of yours,
and thus it functions normally even if you have been blinded, deafened, or otherwise suffered sensory impairment.
Any creature with an Intelligence score of 12 or higher can notice the sensor by making a DC 20 Intelligence check. The
sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell.
Lead sheeting or magical protection blocks a scrying spell, and you sense that the spell is so blocked.

So the DC 20 Int check is still there. Interesting to note that you need an Int of 12 just to make the check though...

 

[Nail]

That's where that is....thanks!

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

I hadn't relized their was a rule about "noticing" magical effects that you had saved against. Has this always been that way?

Yes, this rule existed in 3.0 as well. However, Scry wasn't based on a Will save in 3.0 so this was a non-issue for Scry.

Thanks for spotting the DC20 INT check passage xopher. That leads to another question I had in 3.0 that I never saw answered sufficiently. Can only the subject of the Scry spell spot the sensor, or can anyone near the subject spot the sensor as well?

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

Just in case anyone cares, I received a response from the sage and Wizards CS on these questions...

The sage:

For the moment, the Sage is advising folks that you can indeed see and hear the subject. That may be a bad assumption, because the "you can't hear" text is new for 3.5. Also, comprehend languages has been dropped from the list of spells you can cast through the sensor. I'll try to get an official answer out in issue 314 or so...

(On whether a failed save causes the "target" to feel a hostile tingle)

No, the spell has to have the pitential to affect you directly in some way.

(On whether only the target or if anyone can spot the sensor.)

Any creature can spot the sensor.

I received a different reply from Wizards CS:

-The wording of this spell is confusing at best. That said, I'll give you a personal interpretation which is the best I can do until we get this to Errata.
When casting Scrying and targeting a subject on your Plane, if they succeed in their saving throw, the spell fails. If they fail in their saving throw, you can both see and hear them. However, when casting this spell and targeting a subject on a different plane, if they fail in their saving throw, you may only see them (and not hear). Of course, if they make their saving throw, the spell fails.

(hostile tingle felt on successful save?)

-A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack.

(if anyone can detect or just the "target")

Any creature with an Int 12 or higher has a chance to notice the sensor.

 

[heirodule]

I wonder how its "supposed" to interact with See Invisibility, which lets you see some "invisible" spell effects like Shield, etc.

It would seem to be a pretty good counter to the scry sensor, but who knows what the intent is with anything in the 3.5 mess.

Paul

 

[Kershek]

I take it someone with spellcraft can still make a DC 25 + spell level check to see what spell was just targetted on you after rolling your saving throw, even if you have an Int of less than 12? That info is listed in the spellcraft skill description.

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

I take it someone with spellcraft can still make a DC 25 + spell level check to see what spell was just targetted on you after rolling your saving throw, even if you have an Int of less than 12? That info is listed in the spellcraft skill description.

Not if you go by the sage's interpretation/ruling that even if you succeed on your save you don't feel a hostile tingle because the spell doesn't "do" anything to you.