[3.5 Whinge] Diviners still got the shaft!

[Terath Ninir]

[whinge mode on]
Diviners still got the shaft, man! Clerics still have the best divinations spells. Augury, divination, commune -- the diviner, a close that supposedly divines for a living, can't actually divine. Ooo, but they've got true strike! That'll do a diviner a lot of good.

Identify is at least better. You learn all the properties of an item, which is 100% to the DM's benefit. I'm usually the DM for the groups I'm in, so that is a definite boost. But it still costs 100 gp! Why? No good reason has ever been given *why*. The casting time is down to 1 hour, which is good.

Legend Lore still takes far, far too long to bother with. Even if you got an NPC to cast it, you'd be taking up to 2d6 weeks of their time away. 2d6 dedicated weeks of a minimum level 11 wizard is going to be *very* expensive. Not to mention that trips to the library and knowledge checks are likely to produce much, much better results, in the same time or less. And you might find out real information instead of some silly riddle.

Contact Other Plane. Yeah, whatever. I'm going to risk getting an 8 Int and Cha for the chance to speak to some extraplanar schmuck that has a good chance of lying to me. And even if they don't lie to me, they have a good chance of not knowing the answer, anyway. I don't think I've ever seen a spellcaster who used this spell, ever.

Not all the diviner's spells are useless, but the class just sucks. Yeah, I know. You take one level of divine oracle and then go into loremaster. But the diviner shouldn't have to do that! They deserve better.
[whinge mode off]

 

[Azure Trance]

They also don't fight as well as fighters either. [/rimshot]

 

[Terath Ninir]

They also don't fight as well as fighters either. [/rimshot]

[whinge]
Buddy, they don't do *anything* as well as anybody else. Well, they can still kick the ass of any commoner that comes around. But that's about it.
[/whinge]

 

[GravyFingerz]

The Diviner, to me, has never been a true class

It has always been regulated to NPC roles

Honestly, when you can play a skull-splitting barbarian, a pious paladin, a suave bard, a gritty ranger, an adept monk, etc., why play a class whose only role is to cast spells that find answers?

Someone might want to, but I've never met him or her

 

[Terath Ninir]

Honestly, when you can play a skull-splitting barbarian, a pious paladin, a suave bard, a gritty ranger, an adept monk, etc., why play a class whose only role is to cast spells that find answers?

Someone might want to, but I've never met him or her

I do I do I do! But the diviner *can't* give those answers, really, most of the time. Not any better than any other wizard with a decent library.

With the handicaps the class has always had and continues to have, though, you're right...

/me weeps bitterly for my poor Diviner.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Naahh. Diviners are fine in 3.5e. Sure they may not be able to tell the future or the past very well.

But they only have to give up one school for an extra:

0: Detect Magic
1: True Strike, Detect Secret Doors
2: Detect Thoughts or See Invisible
3: Arcane Sight or Clairvoyance
4: Arcane Eye or Scrying
5: Prying Eyes or Quickened True Strike
6: Analyze Dweomer, True Seeing or Quickened Detect Thoughts
7: Greater Arcane Sight or Greater Scrying
8: Moment of Prescience or Discern Location
9: Foresight (OK, that one's lame).

And after that you can still take Greater Spell Focus Evocation and load up on the Fireballs and Scorching Rays.

Diviners may not be good at divining but they're not a bad class if you want to be an evoker on the cheap.
8:

 

[Frostmarrow]

I played a diviner in 2ed. His name was Algan Hibeau and he knew pretty much everything. If he didn't, the answer was just a spell away. Needless to say: everybody, co-players and DM hated that character so I dropped him. Good ridance.

The game is about finding answers - Not have them handed to you.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Diviners are divine. Yup Clerics are much better at it, none of that preparing rubbish.

And I reckon a 1st level commoner would win in said fight.

 

[darkbard]

my advice if you want to play the character who knows everything: check out monte cook's Unearthed Arcana [when it's released], specifically the akashic class. here's a link to the official fan site with a combat example demonstrating the akashic's abilities to tap into the collective memory for information:
http://hanger232.inet7.com/

 

[SweeneyTodd]

IMO, PC diviners are just for flavor; you can throw an extra divination spell or three a day without losing much of value.

I agree that playing a Diviner who really just specialized in finding answers (rather than having a knack for those spells) would be fairly boring.