D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] within 5 feet/5 feet away

[Vegepygmy]

I interpret "5 ft. away" as beyond the adjacent square.

But the game does not.

"Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away." PHB, page 137.

"5 feet away" = square adjacent to yours.

 

[Steely_Dan]

What about 4 tiny creature in one square adjacent to 4 tiny creatures in another square, technically they can't attack (reach) one another (the other tiny guys in the square/5 ft. space next to them).

 

[Vegepygmy]

What about them? They are "5 feet away" from each other and can't melee attack each other because that's beyond their reach. Is there some further question that needs to be answered?

 

[ImperatorK]

Maybe Fog Cloud gives concealment even within the casters square, while Obscuring Mist doesn't?

I already said that.

 

[Steely_Dan]

What about them? They are "5 feet away" from each other and can't melee attack each other because that's beyond their reach. Is there some further question that needs to be answered?

Yeesh, what is your problem, why the aggression, you okay?

I find it odd that 4 tiny creatures adjacent to 4 tiny creatures can't attack each other and they can't move into the other 4's space, because they are in different "squares, definitely a problem there.

Please anyone answer except for Vegepygmy, seems like something is going on there I don't want to get involved in.

 

[Omegaxicor]

Yeesh, what is your problem, why the aggression, you okay?

I find it odd that 4 tiny creatures adjacent to 4 tiny creatures can't attack each other and they can't move into the other 4's space, because they are in different "squares, definitely a problem there.

Please anyone answer except for Vegepygmy, seems like something is going on there I don't want to get involved in.

He did seem a bit angry but he is right, they can't attack each other because they have a reach of 1.5-2" and they are 2.5-3" away, makes sense to me.

but I thought they could move into each others squares because that is how they attack, are they stuck 5 feet from their enemy with a 0" reach?

 

[Steely_Dan]

they attack, are they stuck 5 feet from their enemy with a 0" reach?

Yep, by RAW they stand there face-to-face waving their tiny fists at one another.

Because they are 4 tiny angry dudes adjacent to 4 other tiny dudes, stalemate.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Yeesh, what is your problem, why the aggression, you okay?

I don't know what makes you (and Omegaxicor) think there's some anger or aggression in that reply. I simply requested that you clarify what your question was.

I find it odd that 4 tiny creatures adjacent to 4 tiny creatures can't attack each other and they can't move into the other 4's space, because they are in different "squares, definitely a problem there.

Oh, I see now. Yes, I would agree. I doubt the game designers gave any real thought to the possibility that 4 tiny creatures would be in one space, and 4 other tiny creatures hostile to the first 4 tiny creatures would be in another space, and neither side could melee with the other until one of the tiny creatures "made room" for the enemy.

That really has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, but it is a correct observation. I'd say it's (obviously) a situation ripe for DM adjudication. Personally, I'd allow the first tiny creature to enter the enemy square (provoking four AoOs), and if it survived long enough to attack, force it to return to its original square after resolving the attack. But that's just my solution to the problem, not RAW.

 

[Steely_Dan]

Oh, I see now. Yes, I would agree. I doubt the game designers gave any real thought to the possibility that 4 tiny creatures would be in one space, and 4 other tiny creatures hostile to the first 4 tiny creatures would be in another space, and neither side could melee with the other until one of the tiny creatures "made room" for the enemy.

That really has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, but it is a correct observation. I'd say it's (obviously) a situation ripe for DM adjudication. Personally, I'd allow the first tiny creature to enter the enemy square (provoking four AoOs), and if it survived long enough to attack, force it to return to its original square after resolving the attack. But that's just my solution to the problem, not RAW.

Strange little conundrum, I'm surprised it isn't brought up more, it all started when I wanted to make my anthropomorphic chicken monk NPC.