(3.5E) Aw, crap...

[Maggan]

It's an age-old tradition

I'm not concerned. Movement has been measured in squares or inches in rpgs since the dawn of time. Didn't AD&D use inches?

Also, my first rpg, the swedish Drakar och Demoner, used squares, even though they never intended it to be a minis game. So I seldom used minis then. I bought a fair amount of minis, but I didn't use them.

Actually, not having things measured in feet would not be a big change for me. I already have to transform feet into meters when I play, so if they change stuff like that, i'll just convert squares instead of feet.

But... and this is a big but, I'd prefer things to be in either feet or even metric system. But I won't panic if it aint.

Cheers!

Maggan

 

[Enceladus]

I think the fact that they're tweaking the rules for mini's is nice but not exactly worth the uproar. I've always used them in one form or another since 1E. Big deal.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I'd like to point out to the miniature naysayers that D&D has always been a miniature oriented game at heart.

Take a look at the original (1974) rulebooks. They say right on the cover "Playable with paper and pencil and miniature figures."

Why do you think movement rates were given in inches from OD&D through 2d Edition? Why hex maps for outdoor movement? Why facing/flanking diagrams? Because D&D evolved from tabletop wargames, maintains that connection to its roots, and at its heart assumes you have some sort of representation for placement.

In 3E, particularly, you are losing a lot of the functionality of the feat system by not use some sort of map and counter system.

Not that there is anything wrong with not using some sort of system -- I personally played that way for a long time, and only came to use minis and a map with 3E. Now that I have, I'll never go back. The visual aspects, plus the increased effectiveness of the rules, are simply too much to sacrifice.

IME, minis only slow down play for those who aren't used to measuring on the map, and must count each 5' move of their character -- but that doesn't take much time and solves a lot of silly questions. If your players dawdle -- simply tell them their round is up, move or pass.

Don't knock the system 'til you've tried it. If you still don't like it, then don't use it. No one is forcing you.

 

[DDK]

Re: It's an age-old tradition

But... and this is a big but, I'd prefer things to be in either feet or even metric system. But I won't panic if it aint.

I so wish RPG's would go metric. I've wanted that for YEARS. I have a knack for judging distances IF I measure in metric. Feet and yards and inches and miles is all just so convoluted it's ridiculous. The only reason they're still in use AT ALL is because of America. Catch up with the rest of the world already!

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Re: Re: It's an age-old tradition

I so wish RPG's would go metric. I've wanted that for YEARS. I have a knack for judging distances IF I measure in metric. Feet and yards and inches and miles is all just so convoluted it's ridiculous. The only reason they're still in use AT ALL is because of America. Catch up with the rest of the world already!

Aw, you're just jealous.

Do they sell 2.5 cm battlemats down under? 2.5 cm = 2 meters seems a reasonable scale. Convert everything on a basis of 5'=2 meters and it should be workable (unrealistic, maybe, but workable).

 

[Fenes 2]

Re: Re: Re: It's an age-old tradition

Aw, you're just jealous.

Do they sell 2.5 cm battlemats down under? 2.5 cm = 2 meters seems a reasonable scale. Convert everything on a basis of 5'=2 meters and it should be workable (unrealistic, maybe, but workable).

I use a scale of 5 foot = 1.5 meters.

 

[Psion]

I find this worrisome. To date, I have been able to use 3e with or without minis as the situation warrants. For some situations, it's just not necessary, IMO.

I suspect I will continue to do so. But it annoys me that anything new will be written with this in mind, which means I well be swimming upstream to acheive what is supposed to make my game easier.

 

[Henry]

Re: Re: It's an age-old tradition

I so wish RPG's would go metric. I've wanted that for YEARS. I have a knack for judging distances IF I measure in metric. Feet and yards and inches and miles is all just so convoluted it's ridiculous. The only reason they're still in use AT ALL is because of America. Catch up with the rest of the world already!

Eh, go suck on a rust monster!

Seriously, I totally agree with you in the superiority of mathematics and the metric system; however, I make the same claim with feet and inches, that you do in metric. It's because it's what we were raised using from Grade school onward. I can eyeball pretty well to feet and inches; however, I cannot for the life of me eyeball how many meters and centimeters are in a given length.

Conversely, I can make much better measurements with a metric tape ruler than I can with an english standard one. I have an easier time figuring something to be 5.2 centimeters than I can to be 2 & 7/16 of an inch, or what have you.

It's all in what we use for the majority of our adult lives; you are more comfortable with metric because it's what you see every single day, and vice versa.

 

[seasong]

Personally, I find miniatures cumbersome. My reason is this: without miniatures, I can focus on and deal with those parts of the combat that everyone is interested in or is risky, and ignore (or just briefly describe) those things that I know will go one way or the other. I have narrative freedom from too much detail.

Without miniatures, I can give the illusion of completeness without dealing with every single issue. With miniatures, if the 7 NPC warriors and the 5 orcs don't move and act every round while the party is handling the 2 ogres... the players can see it not happening. This, despite the fact that the PCs would very well not pay attention to the warriors and orcs while they had their hands full of ogre ichor.

Miniatures lend too much of a god's eye viewpoint. In return for avoiding that, I can deal with occasional questions of "can I see 'em?".

Important: This is not gospel. Many people prefer a tactical, god's eye view to the clash and chaos of the wormling mortals. Or they prefer exacting precision in measurements, or they prefer handling all of the little details. Whatever, it's fine.

And truth be told, they're a better target audience for a combat-heavy system like D&D, because combat-heavy systems and miniatures are strongly overlapping groups.

 

[DDK]

Re: Re: Re: It's an age-old tradition

It's all in what we use for the majority of our adult lives; you are more comfortable with metric because it's what you see every single day, and vice versa.

I would agree with you but for the fact that I was taught both and although through my life metric has gradually become dominant, I would say it's more a matter of preference. And although I'd agree that my preference and the dominance of the metric system has something to do with my ability to eyeball distances or know har far I've travelled, I also think the metric system is just far more conducive to such an ability. It's just easier to think in metres than feet, kilometres than miles, centimetres than inches, litres than pints, etc.

But I digress. The problem I really have with the imperial system being used is that it means I HAVE to use it because conversion is a PITA and arguably not worth the effort just for gaming. But it still is a constant source of annoyance so at the end of the day, what I end up with is an annoying trait of the game that isn't quite annoying enough to fix but is still annoying and therefore is ultimately more annoying for not being as annoying as something so annoying that I'd fix it... if you get what I mean?