D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5e] Fixing the Sorcerer

[haiiro]

(After realizing that my original suggestion meant having all three 9th level spells as theme spells, I scrapped it.)

I think the following are all excellent additions to the sorcerer:

- 4 skill points/level
- Diplomacy, Gather Information and Intimidate as class skills

- 1st level: Eschew Materials
- 5th level: Spell Thematics (errata'd)

Adding in more bonus feats on top of that seems excessive, but there still needs to be a class element that makes you want to stay a sorcerer (rather than PrCing out at the first opportunity). Whatever it is should be flavorful but relatively minor -- I think the 3.5e sorcerer is slightly less powerful than the wizard, but not drastically so (and in terms of raw combat power, probably already better) -- and should kick in every few levels.

I'm drawing a big blank on what that other feature should be, though.

One option that comes to mind:

- 10th level: Quicken Spell as a bonus feat, usable 1/day.
- 15th level: Quicken Spell can now be used 2/day.
- 20th level: Quicken Spell can now be used 3/day.

...or perhaps: theme spells (1/level) can always be quickened, others can at the x/day rate.

That actually seems pretty workable -- what do you think?

 

[coyote6]

I gave sorcerers bonus metamagic feats at levels 6, 12, and 18. I figured that gave them a boost, without overshadowing wizards. I'm probably going to give 'em Eschew Materials at first level, too.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

With the arrival of the new Dragon magazine, I have been considering adding the bloodline feats as part of the Sorceror class structure.

With this structure, I'd give them Eschew Materials and the first bloodline feat at 1st, Spell Thematics at third or fifth, the Kin feat at eighth, and an advanced bloodline feat at twelfth or fifteenth.

Much more flavor. Delicious flavor.

 

[Nifft]

With the arrival of the new Dragon magazine, I have been considering adding the bloodline feats as part of the Sorceror class structure.
Much more flavor. Delicious flavor.

Can you divluge them, or at least the idea behind some of them?

-- Nifft

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Basically, it's a feat that gives you an extra (specified) known spell per spell level you can cast, with the penalty that you are disallowed spells with a specific descriptor-- Celestials are forbidden evil spells, Earth bloodlines lose Air, and Dragons can pick one.

The other feats allow you to replicate certain abilities-- the Celestial bloodline "expansion" allows you to cast Light 5/day, for instance, while the Draconic expansion gives you Detect Magic.

There's also a feat that gives you a +4 bonus to social skills when dealing with creatures of your bloodline type.

They have Dragon, Celestial, Fiend, Fey, and the Elementals. It's very smooth.

 

[Andion Isurand]

What about Axiomatic and Archaic Outsider Blood?

Or the blood of an Abberation?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

What about Axiomatic and Archaic Outsider Blood?

Or the blood of an Abberation?

They always neglect the Law/Chaos axis.

However, it has guidelines for creating new Sorcerous bloodlines, which are fairly easy to use. You could easily whip up enough new bloodlines to cover Axiomatic, Anarchic, and various aberrant offspring.

 

[DonAdam]

Here's what we do (since wands nearly nullify the sorc):

Start with the Eldritch Might II sorc (spells known chart shifted up so that you get 2 when you get a new level, 4 skill points/level, different take on Eschew Materials)

Add all Charisma-based skills (including Use Magic Device)

Drop HD to d4

Use 3.5 spell list (the problem spells have been fixed)

At 1st level get a bonus feat, Spell Thematics; pick one spell of each level that relate to the source of your sorcerous power. approved by the DM. The first spell known at each level must be the one off the list.

 

[buzz]

Drop HD to d4

Why?

Having perused my new copy of AU, I'm beginning to wonder if giving the sorcerer (or even the wizard) a d6 hit die wouldn't unbalance things at all.

Just thinkin' out loud...

 

[Renfield]

Okay, having read through all of these posts (one of the reasons I've avoided message boards... too lazy ) I've decided to add my own two cents worth. Now I have a friend who thinks that sorcerers are horribly underclassed compaired to wizards. I'm Inclined to disagree but I do think they are a bit weaker. Wizards may have to memorize spells and may have a limited casting of spells per day but they also have feats, faster spell level aquirement, and a wider selection of spells. Now I've pictured sorcerers as they were pretty much described when third edition came out: Being magic by having it in their blood making them a sort of outcast in society and thus never really finding a place in a manner similar to the half elf. Which makes me consider them something of the wandering type.

Now assuming this I'd say a couple more skill points a level wouldn't hurt so the 4+INT would over balance them too much. Add the skills Diplomacy (for talking their way out of nasty situations with superstitious folk) Bluff (for perhaps immitating a wizard when needed) and intimidate (Come closer with those pitchforks and I'll curse all the men of this village to be infertile!... or something of the sort) or simply the fact that they get out more than wizards and interact with people not to mention having CHA as their big score. I also think that having a familiar should be dropped. That has always been to me, a wizard thing, and giving it to the sorcerer is about as idiotic as the stupid pet rock deal for the psionicists (being idiotic in the fact that the psionicist has been made to be more and more like a wizard it seems... but thats for another post)

Okay, new paragraph (always was horrible at that). I don't think the d6 HD is needed, perhaps it's justifiable by saying they wander a lot and need to be tougher. I liked Monte's adjustment to their spell selection as it seemed more fitting to them. Also, Sorcerers are good combat spellcasters, I think that puts them at a disadvantage if they're played under a DM who makes roleplaying a big thing, however that disadvantage can be countered with the skill point and skill deal. I'm also likeing that 0 spell thing and the who eschew materials and Spell Thematics feat thing but no other bonus feats.

That's my jumbled two cents, while the wizard may not compare too well with sheer fighting power I do think they're a little over the top. And despite my posted opinion I just go with Monte Cooks version as I think it makes the sorcerer more desireable in the higher levels without outclassing the wizard or making the sorc over powered. Heh, should have just posted that instead of this, ah well. Toodles.

Renfield