D&D 5E 3 Classic Settings Coming To 5E?

On the D&D Celebration – Sunday, Inside the D&D Studio with Liz Schuh and Ray Winninger, Winninger said that WotC will be shifting to a greater emphasis on settings in the coming years. This includes three classic settings getting active attention, including some that fans have been actively asking for. He was cagey about which ones, though. The video below is an 11-hour video, but the...

On the D&D Celebration – Sunday, Inside the D&D Studio with Liz Schuh and Ray Winninger, Winninger said that WotC will be shifting to a greater emphasis on settings in the coming years.

This includes three classic settings getting active attention, including some that fans have been actively asking for. He was cagey about which ones, though.

The video below is an 11-hour video, but the information comes in the last hour for those who want to scrub through.



Additionally, Liz Schuh said there would be more anthologies, as well as more products to enhance game play that are not books.

Winninger mentioned more products aimed at the mainstream player who can't spend immense amount of time absorbing 3 tomes.

Ray and Liz confirmed there will be more Magic: The Gathering collaborations.
 

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Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
Do you walk into a PR minefield?
Dark Sun's simple enough to do as "There are evil slavers, its your job to kill them" which has pretty much been the thing since... Day one. If some third party comes along and goes and works out the economics for it, well, firstly they would have done it already because its not like there aren't evil slave-taking nations in what we presently have, but also.... Its not going to have a splashback effect if its clearly a third party.

Frankly Dragonlance is more of a PR minefield than Dark Sun is
 

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Imagine that you are WOTC.

You're the biggest fish in a small pond. You have a tremendously loyal fan base. Your main product has, through sheer luck, had a bit of a moment for several years and that is continuing.

You've had a couple of PR blunders in the past year but have managed to put that behind you for a relatively low price.

Do you walk into a PR minefield?
Emotionally, I want to disagree.

The problem is, intellectually, I don't.

Dark Sun was amazing setting. Dark Sun is, frankly, a very relevant and contemporary setting in a lot of ways, perhaps moreso than when it was launched. Unfortunately, Dark Sun also has some seriously problematic elements, particularly the chattel slavery, and the breeding of sentients (which produces a mule-like being, unfortunately tying in to a bunch of early unscientific super-racist ideas about bi-racial people), which are possible to handle, but would be incredibly difficult to handle well.

I don't think D&D is going to have to avoid slavery ever appearing in settings. I do think that, for the present time, settings where slavery is a like, a big focus on the game (and negative thing to be sure, the players often start as slaves) is probably not the way to go.

I think an updated Dark Sun could actually still work, but it would be pretty significantly different. I'd certainly play down the chattel slavery, maybe have it so it's not really a thing, rather indentured servitude (which is similar but different enough and historically all races have experienced - see Bacon's Rebellion for a fascinating vision into how RL racism actually evolved partly as a defense against indentured servants realizing they were basically slaves), and probably even play down that a bit. Get rid of Muls, or more likely, put in something like them, but with a different origin, and certainly rename them. Probably play down psionics a bit (I love psionics to death, but 5E isn't positioned to handle them well at this point), and play up the "distant post-apocalypse" angle, include the "mutations" which were conceptually a part of DS originally but never really followed through on. Also play up the oppressive Templars and so on. The general contours of the setting would be the same, but the specifics would be quite different.

All that said though, I doubt it's worth the effort unless they have an exceptional vision for DS in 5E.

Planescape seems highly likely, esp. given DiTerlizzi doing stuff to do with it recently-ish. Plus it's not any kind of minefield, really.

Spelljammer would need a massive reboot, or folding into Planescape.

Dark Sun's simple enough to do as "There are evil slavers, its your job to kill them" which has pretty much been the thing since... Day one. If some third party comes along and goes and works out the economics for it, well, firstly they would have done it already because its not like there aren't evil slave-taking nations in what we presently have, but also.... Its not going to have a splashback effect if its clearly a third party.

Frankly Dragonlance is more of a PR minefield than Dark Sun is
I wish I agreed but I think this is naive. "Kill the bad slavers" is not enough. There's a difference in the level of focus on slavery - and DS previously focused on it but didn't really address it - now you'd have to actually address it. I think there are ways around it, but you're being too flip about it in comparing it to other settings.

Dragonlance is a PR minefield for sure, too, and I doubt WotC will do it as an official setting in 5E. I'm honestly surprised they're even publishing novels for it.
 

embee

Lawyer by day. Rules lawyer by night.
Emotionally, I want to disagree.

The problem is, intellectually, I don't.

Dark Sun was amazing setting. Dark Sun is, frankly, a very relevant and contemporary setting in a lot of ways, perhaps moreso than when it was launched. Unfortunately, Dark Sun also has some seriously problematic elements, particularly the chattel slavery, and the breeding of sentients (which produces a mule-like being, unfortunately tying in to a bunch of early unscientific super-racist ideas about bi-racial people), which are possible to handle, but would be incredibly difficult to handle well.

I don't think D&D is going to have to avoid slavery ever appearing in settings. I do think that, for the present time, settings where slavery is a like, a big focus on the game (and negative thing to be sure, the players often start as slaves) is probably not the way to go.

I think an updated Dark Sun could actually still work, but it would be pretty significantly different. I'd certainly play down the chattel slavery, maybe have it so it's not really a thing, rather indentured servitude (which is similar but different enough and historically all races have experienced - see Bacon's Rebellion for a fascinating vision into how RL racism actually evolved partly as a defense against indentured servants realizing they were basically slaves), and probably even play down that a bit. Get rid of Muls, or more likely, put in something like them, but with a different origin, and certainly rename them. Probably play down psionics a bit (I love psionics to death, but 5E isn't positioned to handle them well at this point), and play up the "distant post-apocalypse" angle, include the "mutations" which were conceptually a part of DS originally but never really followed through on. Also play up the oppressive Templars and so on. The general contours of the setting would be the same, but the specifics would be quite different.

All that said though, I doubt it's worth the effort unless they have an exceptional vision for DS in 5E.

Planescape seems highly likely, esp. given DiTerlizzi doing stuff to do with it recently-ish. Plus it's not any kind of minefield, really.

Spelljammer would need a massive reboot, or folding into Planescape.


I wish I agreed but I think this is naive. "Kill the bad slavers" is not enough. There's a difference in the level of focus on slavery - and DS previously focused on it but didn't really address it - now you'd have to actually address it. I think there are ways around it, but you're being too flip about it in comparing it to other settings.

Dragonlance is a PR minefield for sure, too, and I doubt WotC will do it as an official setting in 5E. I'm honestly surprised they're even publishing novels for it.
It's a shame and a bit of a quandary for WOTC.

Handle slavery wrong in DS5e and there will be bad press about minimizing or trivializing it. Remove it altogether and grognards will say "Not My Dark Sun."

Do nothing.

If there is a good and well-received fan conversation or AP, it will be on DMs Guild and DriveThruRPG. WOTC will get a cut and if there is a problem, they can say that it is fan-generated content.

Is it fair? Not really. Star Wars has sentient beings that you can buy to do work for you. In the real world, that's called slavery. In the game, they're called droids. Or clones. Similarly, Conan has slavery but doesn't catch heat.

The practical difference is that for 95% of the population, RPG=D&D. There is no Star Wars or Conan RPG. That's the problem with being the biggest fish in the very small pond.

It sucks but I wouldn't fault WOTC for shying away from DS for the foreseeable future.

There are two settings left to introduce this year. Dragonlance is probably one of them. And Spelljammer could be the other, as could Planescape.

Sigh
 

There are two settings left to introduce this year. Dragonlance is probably one of them. And Spelljammer could be the other, as could Planescape.
I think Dragonlance is a pretty risky one to do unless they're prepared to basically reboot the setting and even then... there are a lot of problematic issues. The most obvious one is this bigass setting where virtually everyone is clearly white (including the elves, dwarves, etc.), except there are some crudely-stereotyped tribal peoples clearly based on hippy ideas about Native American cultures, and the oh god... Sea Barbarians, who are cool black people (and likewise pretty stereotyped). Basically otherwise non-white people don't exist in the setting. They're not even far away - they just straight-up don't exist. Which might be fine if "white people" also didn't, and all the humans were weird non-real races (like Exalted, to some extent), but that's not the case.

That's without touching stuff like Kender, or Gully Dwarves. Or religion.

Taladas doesn't follow the same model, and in fact almost looks like an early attempt to do a "diverse" setting, but like three people have heard of it and it's not what most people think when they hear "Dragonlance".

I think an updated and totally remade Dark Sun would play better than Dragonlance, to be honest. Even Greyhawk would, if sufficiently updated.
 


embee

Lawyer by day. Rules lawyer by night.
I think Dragonlance is a pretty risky one to do unless they're prepared to basically reboot the setting and even then... there are a lot of problematic issues. The most obvious one is this bigass setting where virtually everyone is clearly white (including the elves, dwarves, etc.), except there are some crudely-stereotyped tribal peoples clearly based on hippy ideas about Native American cultures, and the oh god... Sea Barbarians, who are cool black people (and likewise pretty stereotyped). Basically otherwise non-white people don't exist in the setting. They're not even far away - they just straight-up don't exist. Which might be fine if "white people" also didn't, and all the humans were weird non-real races (like Exalted, to some extent), but that's not the case.

That's without touching stuff like Kender, or Gully Dwarves. Or religion.

Taladas doesn't follow the same model, and in fact almost looks like an early attempt to do a "diverse" setting, but like three people have heard of it and it's not what most people think when they hear "Dragonlance".

I think an updated and totally remade Dark Sun would play better than Dragonlance, to be honest. Even Greyhawk would, if sufficiently updated.
Hickman posted that at the beginning of this month. He later "clarified." As they say in politics, if you're explaining, you're losing.

He's not really helping the argument for bringing back Dragonlance.
Screenshot_20210224-090748_Twitter.jpg
 

Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
taking the above into account Planescape would need lots of updating as would spelljammer plus they would be lacking in places to go to, so what we got left Greyhawk lacks a lot to sell people on it? the 4e setting?
 

Do you think here in the UK we are inclined to be a bit more suspicious of Mormonism than elsewhere in the world? I don't know, just throwing it out there.
Hmmmm. I dunno. It's a reasonable question but I think most younger British people I know just think Mormonism is kind of funny, rather than creepy. And I think very few people make the connection to Mormon-derived works of SF and fantasy, even when they know about - like BSG including nuBSG is very much Mormon-derived but I think people here always that as a minor curiosity, and didn't dwell on it.
Hickman posted that at the beginning of this month. He later "clarified." As they say in politics, if you're explaining, you're losing.

He's not really helping the argument for bringing back Dragonlance.View attachment 133231
Oh my giddy aunt.

Wow, that is some incredibly bad optics. He can "explain" all he likes, but there's no modern picture of "adventurers" that isn't going to compare favourably to what is basically a bunch of 1970s white people. Also is Caramon based on Kurt Russell or what there? (There is an actor he looks even more like but his name escapes me).
 

taking the above into account Planescape would need lots of updating as would spelljammer plus they would be lacking in places to go to, so what we got left Greyhawk lacks a lot to sell people on it? the 4e setting?
Neither of those is true. Planescape would need no more updating than any other setting. Spelljammer would need a ton of updating, though. Both are perfectly possible though.

Greyhawk would need to basically respecialize as a Sword & Sorcery setting in a pretty serious way, and probably need serious updates to boot. The Nentir Vale is awesome but I don't think a setting book about it would sell.
 

embee

Lawyer by day. Rules lawyer by night.
Hmmmm. I dunno. It's a reasonable question but I think most younger British people I know just think Mormonism is kind of funny, rather than creepy. And I think very few people make the connection to Mormon-derived works of SF and fantasy, even when they know about - like BSG including nuBSG is very much Mormon-derived but I think people here always that as a minor curiosity, and didn't dwell on it.

Oh my giddy aunt.

Wow, that is some incredibly bad optics. He can "explain" all he likes, but there's no modern picture of "adventurers" that isn't going to compare favourably to what is basically a bunch of 1970s white people. Also is Caramon based on Kurt Russell or what there? (There is an actor he looks even more like but his name escapes me).
Harry Hamlin.
harry-hamlin-medusa-head-clash-of-the-titans-1981-BP7JF3.jpg
 

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