• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

[3.x] Spells organised by Alignment?

Howdy folks,

Kind of an odd question, but does anyone know if someone took a stab at organising spells based on the "alignment" of the spell?

We've got spells organised by schools and there's even a couple of stabs at organising them by MTG colors. But I don't know off the top of my head if anyone has used the alignment system. Eithe 6 axis (Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic, Good/Neutral/Evil) or the usual 9 axis alignment.

Obviously, it's a subjective thing as to where exactly a spell would fall and how to define things (usually murky anytime the alignment system comes up), but even seeing someone else's stab at it would be useful.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

generally speaking, Magic is akin to any other tool for other than the occasional effect directly reliant upon Positive/Negative energy, the vast majority are True Neutral with any brief circumstantial "alignment" reflecting more upon a particular caster's immediate need/usage than any inherent alignment of the effect itself.
 

generally speaking, Magic is akin to any other tool for other than the occasional effect directly reliant upon Positive/Negative energy, the vast majority are True Neutral with any brief circumstantial "alignment" reflecting more upon a particular caster's immediate need/usage than any inherent alignment of the effect itself.

Errrr... I'm not quite sure what your point is.

I understand that as the system is set up, magic is "neutral" and it's people that have alignments. But that's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking if anyone has actually sat down and said, "Yeah, you know as a spell goes, 'Fireball' is Chaotic. It's all about destruction and fire itself is pretty chaotic and unpredictable."

Alignment is one of those kinda funky things in D&D. Mainly a metagame tool to attempt to control player behaviour, things like Detect Evil and whatnot would imply that alignment is an inherently knowable and quantifiable thing. You're evil or you're not and some things are simply evil. Powers that a Paladin has (and other classes) being tied to alignment... all that sort of stuff.

So it seemed to me like it'd be interesting to see what it looked like if magic actually obeyed the rules that the people apparently do.

For example, one might start with the premise that Abjuration spells are going to be going either Lawful or Neutral, a bunch of the Necromancy spells would slot into the Good section, and Evocation is probably going to get stuff tossed into the Chaotic side.

I'm not sure how viable an actual campaign would be based on this premise, but given how lots of folks like to mess around with the Arcane/Divine divide, I thought it might be interesting to examine it from the alignment divide.

And of course, I'm ever hopeful that someone else might have had a similar idea and taken a whack at it, thereby saving me a bunch of work. :D Just like magic split out from schools and into MTG colors instead; I might not agree with all the divisions or whatnot, but it's handy having something else to at least use as a sounding board.

Edit: There's also some interesting potential interactions with the various "Protection from" type spells as well as Detection stuff.

And then there's other stuff like a person of a particular alignment using spells of a different alignment and what that means. I mean, most D&D characters are homicidal and sociopaths, engaged in genocide because the creatures they're killing are "evil". So even though the same action that would be a problem if it was done against a "good human" is a problem, if it's done against an "evil" creature (which is usually race-based) it gets a pass. Given that's the way most games operate, what does it look like when casting magic actually follows the same rules?

That's the sort of thing that's running around in my head right now and why I asked if anyone has actually done anything like this already.
 
Last edited:

Try
http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndLive/index.asp

It has a number of categories for searches. I can't access it at the moment so no guarantee it'll meet your needs.

Jefgotbach has it right that many spells have no alignment. A spell's descriptor line is where that determination is made (just underneath the spell name).

Just note that some domain spells are not really alignment specific:
Shatter is a Chaos Domain spell but in itself is not a Chaotic type spell (whether you should class it as such when cast as a domain spell is something for a DM to decide), unlike Desecrate which has an evil descriptor.
 

Hmmmm.

I seem to have utterly failed in my communication, or else the idea is so alien that nobody has done it.

I understand magic doesn't have an alignment descriptor. That's not my question.

My question is, has anybody tried adding an alignment descriptor to spells?

Going back to Fireball as an example:
Fireball has the following "descriptors": Evocation [Fire]

Now, instead of thinking about Fireball as an "evocation" spell, or even as a "fire" spell, has anyone considered what sort of alignment Fireball would have?

Cleric Domains are sorta going in that direction; only instead of the standard domains, spell "domains" would be the alignments (either 6 or 9 axis. I think 6 might be better personally).

So for example:
Chain Lightning has the following "descriptors": Evocation [Electricity]. However, it also falls under the Air domain. If you were to have alignments as domains, what alignment domain would it fall under?

Please note, I'm not talking about Fireball becoming a Cleric spell. This isn't an Arcane/Divine thing. The domains are just trying to illustrate what I'm getting at; domains are basically a whole other way that spells get classed, aside from their "school".

Folks have already gone through and thought, "If I was going to use D&D to run a Magic: The Gathering game, what color would [spell x] be?" There's certainly nothing official about it, in fact WotC would really prefer it if folks didn't cross their games like that. But people have at least messed around with it.

In other words, alignment would be a completely different descriptor. Depending on how you wanted to run the game, it _could_ be something along the lines of cleric domains. Or it could be an alternative to the Wizard schools.

Instead of specialising in Evocation, maybe a caster specialises in Chaos spells. There could be all sorts of stuff in the chaos school, which would normally be classed as Evocation, Abjuration, whatever.

Schools and domains theme spells and their effects. Given how important alignment is to the underlying D&D world/system, I thought I'd see if anyone had themed magic that way.
 

I think I see what you're getting at. I've thought along similar lines, though not grouping by alignment. It's a neat idea actually, with lots of nifty implications for world-building. Unfortunately, I've never seen such a approach to spell groups.

Sounds to me like what you're thinking-- starting with domains (divine and arcane)-- is pretty much the best (only?) starting point. I'd think that grouping those groups, then shifting around the spells that don't quite fit or are duplicated, would be the easiest springboard for such a project. That's going to leave a lot of spells left over, though.

There's a book called "Paths of Magic" (I forget who it's by, atm) that also groups spells into thematic "paths" which are similar to domains but less structured. Using those as a starting point for grouping groups of spells into your alignment categories might make the project a bit more manageable than by using domains alone since, iirc, these "paths" overall include a lot more spells than the standard domains.

But that's about all I can think of that might help. Good luck with working it out!
 

Lemme take a stab...

As you say, this is probably not a viable game/campaign distinction...unless you were playing a in world of filled with severely rigid moral/ethical societal laws...

But, it sounds like an interesting challenge.

Let's say that the alignments will be broken on the 9 access. So spells will be sorted by Ethical concerns being Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic and Moral determinations being Good/Neutral/Evil. I'll also keep them broken by school (arcane) or domain (divine) so we can see (as I suspect we shall) a general sway/average alignment for different kinds of magic.

Just to start...let's take a swing at 1st level Arcane Spells:
Abjurations



  • Alarm: Lawful. Neutral.
  • Endure Elements: Lawful. Good.
  • Hold Portal: Chaotic. Neutral.
  • Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: Lawful. (vs. Evil) Good/(vs. Law & Choas) Neutral/(vs. Good) Evil.
  • Shield: Neutral. Good.
Abjuration Average Alignment (Avg. Align.): Lawful (3 of 5) Neutral (4 of 5).
Conjurations


  • Grease: Chaotic. Neutral.
  • Mage Armor: Lawful. Good.
  • Mount: Chaotic. Good.
  • Obscuring Mist: Chaotic. Neutral.
  • Summon Monster I: Chaotic. Evil.
  • Unseen Servant: Chaotic. Neutral.
Conjuration Avg. Align.: Chaotic (5 of 6) Neutral (3 of 6).
Divination


  • Comprehend Languages: Neutral. Good.
  • Detect Secret Doors: Lawful. Good.
  • Detect Undead: Lawful. Good.
  • Identify: Neutral. Good.
  • True Strike: Lawful. Evil.
Divination Avg. Align.: Lawful (3/5) Good (4/5)
Enchantment


  • Charm Person: Chaotic. Good.
  • Hypnotism: Chaotic. Neutral.
  • Sleep: Chaotic. Good.
Enchantment Avg. Align.: Chaotic (3/3) Good (2/3)
Evocation


  • Burning Hands: Chaotic. Evil.
  • Floating Disk: Neutral. Neutral.
  • Magic Missile: Lawful. Evil.
  • Shocking Grasp: Chaotic. Evil.
Evocation Av.g Align. Chaotic (2/4) Evil (3/4)
Illusion


  • Color Spray: Neutral. Evil.
  • Disguise Self: Neutral. Neutral.
  • Magic Aura: Chaotic. Evil.
  • Silent Image: Neutral. Neutral.
  • Ventriloquism: Neutral. Neutral.
Illusion Avg. Align.: True Neutral (4/5, 3/5)
Necromancy


  • Cause Fear: Chaotic. Evil.
  • Chill Touch: Lawful. Evil.
  • Ray of Enfeeblement: Lawful. Evil.
Necromancy Avg. Align.: Lawful (2/3) Evil (3/3)
Transmutation


  • Animate Rope: Chaotic. Neutral.
  • Enlarge Person: Neutral. Neutral.
  • Erase: Chaotic. Neutral.
  • Expeditious Retreat: Neutral. Good.
  • Feather Fall: Chaotic. Neutral.
  • Jump: Neutral. Good.
  • Magic Weapon: Lawful. Evil.
  • Reduce Person: Neutral. Neutral.
Transmutation Avg. Align.: True Neutral (4/8, 5/8).

Hmmm. Didn't end up with any Neutral Evil...interesting.

What do people think?
--SD

EDIT: A case could be made, with a few adjustments, to gear Illusion to "Neutral Evil"...changing a couple of "Neutrals" to "Evils" for a majority...since the goal of the spells (in most cases) is to perpetrate a deception...arguably a morally "evil act."

If that were the case then you would, in fact, end up with a specific arcane school being attributed to each alignment...which was kinda what I was expecting in the first place.
 
Last edited:

Just to start...let's take a swing at 1st level Arcane Spells:

That's pretty interesting steeldragons.

I wasn't sure whether people had (or would) go for the 9 axis or not. In some ways I can see it being sort of restrictive to do the combined good-evil/lawful-chaos on a spell; just slapping either one or the other would probably be "easier".

I also wasn't sure really if a school would entirely go with an alignment or even mostly.

If it does/would, then the idea becomes much less interesting I think.

As you say, this is probably not a viable game/campaign distinction...unless you were playing a in world of filled with severely rigid moral/ethical societal laws...

But, it sounds like an interesting challenge.

See, this sort of thing pops up pretty quick when dealing with the alignment system in D&D. Always arguments about how strict/not-strict it is, people looking for corner cases, etc.

The thing is... the game treats it pretty rigidly. Not as rigidly as it _could_, but rigid enough. You've got spells that definitely identify good/evil. Sure, you can start waffling around and try and go all grey-area, but the underlying idea is that good and evil can be quantified/measured and determined. A class with alignment restrictions _will_ lose their powers if their alignment shifts.

Now, you can claim it's not the alignment shifting that causes a class to lose it's powers, but instead the alignment shift is merely measuring the character's drift away from the ideas that help power/fuel their abilities... but I don't buy it. Yeah, you _can_ make that arguement, but I don't find it _more_ valid than the idea that alignment is a measurable/active force in the D&D setting.

Aren't planes aligned? And of course there's still the issue of "it's an evil creature, so it's not murder."

Anyway... yeah. I'll have to think about it a bit more I guess. The fact that most of a school matches up to one of the 9 alignments makes it less interesting to me. Although it might be more interesting if magic was simply broken along the 6 alignment axis as the default. Then, you could have certain spells only available to those that specialised (narrowed down into the 9 axis system).

So as a rough idea if you wanted to keep Arcane and Divine separate, then you go with the obvious: Arcane gets the Lawful/Chaotic split, and Divine gets the Good/Evil; naturally, if you wanted to play around with some of the assumptions of divinity (ala Moorcock) then divine could be Lawful/Chaos and Arcane gets the Good/Evil. Either of those automatically sort of say something about the setting.

After a certain point a caster can choose to specialise. Once they do, they get access to certain other spells that are only allowed to that alignment. If you don't specialise, then you just continue as you have been.

Or again, if you want to make a statement about the setting, perhaps spell levels themselves are capped if you're not completely aligned. So for example, say the cap starts at 6 level. An Arcane caster can learn up to and including level 5 spells. Beyond that though, all they get is more spell slots; you could probably burn those slots for various metamagic feats, but whatever.

If they want access to 6th level spells, they've got to switch from the 3 axis to the 9 axis. Depending on the statement you're making, the 9 axis could simply be a "gatekeeper" in that you can pick _any_ of the 6th level+ spells, or it could be restrictive and only allow 6th level+ spells that also match the particular alignment you've selected.

Alignment then becomes not just a measure of how a person interacts with the world, but is even an actual measure of power. Some dude busting out "Mage's Sword" is A) Powerful and B) Particularly driven, because they've dedicated themselves so completely to a particular ethos.

In other words, alignment actually becomes a serious thing within the world. Not everyone is going to register on the battlefield, but those that do... look out.

Again, tapping Moorcock... there's a pretty serious difference between Elric and Conan. One of the differences being the role that alignment effectively plays in the setting; in Conan, it's pretty much the "standard" that you see in D&D games, but in Elric... alignment is alive and actively waging a war.

Hmmm. It's only as I've been typing this out that I've started to have some of these ideas gel a bit. I'll have to think about it some more and see where (if anywhere) they take me.

Thanks for your input man.
 


Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top