D&D 3E/3.5 3e/4e as Operating Systems: An Argument for Grognardism

[funkysnunkulator]

Note that according to WotC sources, the OGL will continue in the 4th edition. Which means that there can also be millions of people (if there are actually so many ) to contribute.
There is some content available online on the WotC sites, but it's still just the WotC content.

didn't know that. if OGL remains, happiness shall remain.

doing a dance of joy now.

 

[funkysnunkulator]

You are so very right (I say with great bitterness).

If I wanted to play an MMORPG, I'd play one - I think trying to emulate the online experience through tabletop (or a hybrid tabletop/online environment - the virtual table) is a huge step in the wrong direction. Frankly, a lot of the players who have come to my table with their first experience being online rpgs are lousy gamers. So busy trying to level that they can't remember any part of the plot. They go encounter to encounter.

Many people who say they won't convert will give in to the shiny new covers either instantly or six months to a year down the road. For many of us, rpg books are like potato chips, you can't stop at one. Ooh! Conan 2e with only minor changes? Sure sign me up! A new splat book I don't need with a hundred bizaare feats and obscure prestige classes? I'll take two!

I figure I skipped out entirely on 2e, so I guess I'll just wait until 5e to reinvest. By then all of my WotC books should have composted.

yeah. never got into the online gaming. it is ALL about leveling. have been lucky. our megagroup are all veteran gamers from way back. we have not been forced to deal with the "young and restless" mmorpg gamers. and no doubt about it. will definitely be checking out some of the v4 stuff (cannibalize ideas and stuff).

but of course, will be miserable every step of the way!!! hahahahahaha!!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Maybe I just haven't read the right material in the rumor mill, but isn't it fair to say that the degree of backwards compatibility at this point is still unknown? I have high hopes that it's fairly good. Otherwise, I'll give some very serious thought to not converting myself.

There's been mixed messages. It's got races, alignments, classes and a D20. It'll be backward compatible.

 

[SSquirrel]

I have over 600 pages. Of course, those pages also include reprints of the SRD still in effect, so that the houserule book is the only book required for the game.

RC

As I've told you in the past RC, that doesn't mean you have 600 pages of houserules. It means you have 550 pages of SRD and 50 pages of house rules or however the ratio works out. Things that appear in your book exactly as they are in the SRD != house rule

 

[SSquirrel]

yeah. never got into the online gaming. it is ALL about leveling. have been lucky. our megagroup are all veteran gamers from way back. we have not been forced to deal with the "young and restless" mmorpg gamers. and no doubt about it. will definitely be checking out some of the v4 stuff (cannibalize ideas and stuff).

but of course, will be miserable every step of the way!!! hahahahahaha!!

It all depends who you're gaming with, just like the tabletop game. My WoW guild started as a bunch of people from an old telnet based bulletin board (telnet to telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com if you're bored sometime) and we all read the video game forum there, many of us also participating in the RPG forum. Our guild to date is largely friends and family, w/some cool people we've met online. We do some raiding, but we're still every casual and it's more about enjoying time w/our friends than anything else.

Heck I know several DMs that run games as one encounter after another w/story a distant 8th to combat.

 

[Raven Crowking]

As I've told you in the past RC, that doesn't mean you have 600 pages of houserules. It means you have 550 pages of SRD and 50 pages of house rules or however the ratio works out. Things that appear in your book exactly as they are in the SRD != house rule

Well, for races that means......about 90% house rules. Some have been posted here.

For classes that means.....all have house rules, but the rogue is pretty much untouched from the 3.5 version, except for changes to account for Wound Points/Vitality. Again, about 90% house rules. Some have been posted here.

For skills that means.....about 50% house rules due to expanded skills and skill descriptions (including psionic and combat skills). I posted combat skills here.

For feats that means....over 50% due to expanded selection.

For equipment that means.....about 25%. All weapons get altered to deal with weapon skills; all armours are altered to include DR.

For combat that means.......about 15%. Initiative rules, critical rules, and some special manuever rules, as well as adding combat actions from Iron Heroes.

For base magic rules that means......about 50%. I changed the schools of magic, added religous rituals, abolished the arcane/divine divide, included ley line mechanics from HoHF: Elves, etc. Also, rewrites of spell lists, rewrites of many spells to bring back earlier edition goodness or to modify toward lower magic.

I even changed the base chart for what you get based on ability scores (lowered bonus spells).

I would say that, of my 600+ page houserules, about 250 pages are pure SRD. But that's just an estimate.

RC

 

[elijah snow]

There's been mixed messages. It's got races, alignments, classes and a D20. It'll be backward compatible.

Actually, I thought it wasn't going to have alignments. And that class levels and features, feats, PrCs, arcane spellcasting, and skills will get significant overhauls such that 4e will be pretty unrecognizable from 3e.

But hey, it does have Orcus.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Although this thread has already pushed the analogy way beyond it's ability to still be sustainable, I'm going to go even farther: what I'd like to see in 4e if it isn't already fairly backwards compatible, is some kind of little emulator module that allows us to import 3e and 3.5 material without any fuss into a 4e native environment.

I wonder how should such a thing could work?

Can you make a "Virtual Roleplaying Game" system with which you can run D&D 3.x with the Shadowrun 4 rules?

 

[funkysnunkulator]

It all depends who you're gaming with, just like the tabletop game. My WoW guild started as a bunch of people from an old telnet based bulletin board (telnet to telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com if you're bored sometime) and we all read the video game forum there, many of us also participating in the RPG forum. Our guild to date is largely friends and family, w/some cool people we've met online. We do some raiding, but we're still every casual and it's more about enjoying time w/our friends than anything else.

Heck I know several DMs that run games as one encounter after another w/story a distant 8th to combat.

oh no doubt about it. if your online guild is not about leveling (solely), then you are the first!! hahaha. our group has been gaming for nearly thirty years. levels happen, but if new players couldn't hang with the story, they wouldn't last. started in this group as a player (od&d) original character was converted through each incarnation of the game. finally retired the character when taking a dm's position in our megagroup (paid position by the way, serious gamers). our players/character have achieved high levels (dizzying hieghts) due to the vast amount of time playing. had there been worthless stories, it would not be worth it. period.

conversely, we have turned away many would be players due to a lack of patience. many of them make constant reference to warcraft everquest or final fantasy because this is what they know.

we have also encounted dm's with the imagination of a gerbil. yep. they are out there.

 

[jdrakeh]

There's been mixed messages. It's got races, alignments, classes and a D20. It'll be backward compatible.

Not mechanically. All of these things have been touted by WotC reps as working differently under 4e. Being "thematically compatible" is a nice way of saying "It'll be as compatible with 3x as Rolemaster is!" (Rolemaster also has all of those things, including a d100 roll that can be easily converted to the same linear distribution that the d20 System uses).