3e and the Test of Time
- Thread starter Belen
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UniversalMonster
Explorer
BelenUmeria said:
This is one where you are very, very wrong.
Actually my reasons for my campaigns being so much better now have everything to do with 3e. And specifically, with the improved rules that make up the backbone of D&D 3e+. The main thing is- it's a much more consistent and fun game now. D&D3.5 is better and more fun than all previous versions from a rules point of view. And it supports my desire to customize and build. For example, in my current campaign, we redesigned all of the races as anthropomorphic animals. We made up a custom prestige class for one of the player characters. We've been able to coordinate work between me and the other players because we all work on a common baseline of a very consistent rules system. Before you just sort of made it up, threw some stats together and see if it worked.
Your'e welcome to your opinion, of course, but thats all it is.
There are just so many things I couldn't do before that I can easily do now, that I'll be very reluctant to give up D&D3 (and d20) unless and until something better comes along. And that hasn't happened. I'm not saying such a thing won't ever happen, but I am saying it hasn't happened yet, and nobody has even come close.
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reanjr
First Post
EricNoah said:
Whenever I show my players a 2e book, they are literally awed. Granted I only show them the good ones (since I don't pull out the bad ones), but the best 2e had to offer far exceeded anything in 3e. They didn't even know gaming books were allowed to be entertaining and/or inspiring. They thought that was the DM's job. And when campaigns run by 3e DMs (those who came in on 3e) soured after short periods of time, I explained to them that DMing isn't some magical talent. It's learned. And the 3e books are NOT the place to learn it.
UniversalMonster
Explorer
Which 2e books teach GMing?
I had the Complete Guide to Villians (which was pretty good) and I think the Complete Catacombs which had an extensive 'campaign management' section.
The only truly inspiring sets from 2e that I was reluctant to get rid of were the Planescape books and boxed sets, which were amazing. And the Dark Sun boxed set. I like really exotic and nonstandard fantasy, I guess. But in general, other than those few things, I didn't think the AD&D 2 stuff was all that great. There's no comparison, really.
I had the Complete Guide to Villians (which was pretty good) and I think the Complete Catacombs which had an extensive 'campaign management' section.
The only truly inspiring sets from 2e that I was reluctant to get rid of were the Planescape books and boxed sets, which were amazing. And the Dark Sun boxed set. I like really exotic and nonstandard fantasy, I guess. But in general, other than those few things, I didn't think the AD&D 2 stuff was all that great. There's no comparison, really.
UniversalMonster
Explorer
diaglo said:
When it comes to me describing why I like my current campaign better, it's more than an opinion-it's a rock solid fact. I'm telling you for a fact why I like it better. Not just that I think it's "better".
Here's an example:
Strawberry ice cream is better than all other flavors! (opinion)
I like strawberry ice cream the best. (fact. Because I really do.)
Shemeska
Adventurer
Peter said:
My opinion here is biased in many ways because the 2e stuff I've since been exposed to since getting into DnD in 3e was probably the best that 2e had to offer and I've not seen all the rank and file average stuff or the poorer stuff in those years. Kind of like getting an opinion of Washington DC by seeing the White House and all the monuments, but not the sprawling drug addled slums that make up the other half of the city.
Perhaps it's not valid to compare -all- of 2e with -all- of 3e, but simply to say the best of 2e (Planescape, DarkSun, the more exotic campaign settings etc) was on another plane of existence compared to the best of 3e (thus far?)?
reanjr said:
Show them "The Complete Book of Elves" sometime.
Personally, I think Eberron can hang with just about anything 2.0 had to offer in terms of artistic merit / inspirational value. Whether it floats your boat personally is a different question, of course.
I sure do miss that DiTerzelli, though. But give me a two-page spread by Wayne Reynolds, and I'm in hog heaven.
I like the fact that I can customize my fighter now, or play a celestial or a goblin. I like prestige classes better than kits. I like Rule Zero. I like open multiclassing and no level limits for demihumans, and I like that I don't have to read a bunch of nonsense rationalizing why a halfling can't be a bard or why a dwarf can't be a paladin. I like the lack of essays telling me the right way to game. I like the general recognition that fantasy fiction has changed over the past twenty years, and that not everyone has read Howard, Vance, Lieber, and Tolkien. I like 3.5 psionics and 3.5 two-weapon fighting and ECL.
I think any one of those beautiful 2.0 settings....any of them...would be better with the 3.5 engine under the hood.
Eberron and Scarred Lands and Arcana Unearthed...they have their fans, same as Planescape and Spelljammer and Birthright.
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UniversalMonster
Explorer
Diaglo: I'm not offended! People like what they like. Not much to argue with about that, is there?
