D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Sorceror

[Stalker0]

Upon reflection, I think I no longer like the "class feature spells". Most of them El are far too weak for their class level. Sorcerous burst needed to be a d8. Chaos Bolt needs to be 3d8 +1d8 per level. Arcane Eruption needs to be level 3 or 8d6 starting. Sorcerous vitality should be a class feature that scales with level, and sorcery incarnate should also be a class feature usable prof/day. None of those spells are worth a slot. Maybe if you gave a free cast of each, you'd see them used.

Which is a shame; I like the flavor. Just each of those spells are trumped by something better on the arcane spell list.

I think teh jury is still out on Arcane Eruption, its an interesting spell, combining some very nice control with ok damage but also with highly flexible energy types and the full out area power of fireball.

Its not a top tier 4th level spell for certain, but it might be a solid mid power for 4th.

 

[Remathilis]

I think teh jury is still out on Arcane Eruption, its an interesting spell, combining some very nice control with ok damage but also with highly flexible energy types and the full out area power of fireball.

Its not a top tier 4th level spell for certain, but it might be a solid mid power for 4th.

Which is fine, but spells that are effectively class abilities should be top tier. Eldritch Blast is pushed above all other cantrips because it's supposed to be a warlock's bread and butter. If it was mid tier, nobody would care. If these sorcerer spells are spells I can only get for leveling in sorcerer, it needs to be pushed like fireball is. They shouldn't automatically be the best, but they should be better than "thanks, I guess".

I think WotC is overvaluing the ability to choose your energy type a little too much. There just aren't enough weaknesses to exploit that, and bypassing resistance is trivial with force damage (hello eldritch blast again). Granted, we don't know if more of those top tier spells aren't getting nerfed, but right now the design feels way too safe, which means they aren't a contender for BiS for the sorcerer and I don't think they would see much play.

 

[Horwath]

Which is fine, but spells that are effectively class abilities should be top tier. Eldritch Blast is pushed above all other cantrips because it's supposed to be a warlock's bread and butter. If it was mid tier, nobody would care. If these sorcerer spells are spells I can only get for leveling in sorcerer, it needs to be pushed like fireball is. They shouldn't automatically be the best, but they should be better than "thanks, I guess".

I think WotC is overvaluing the ability to choose your energy type a little too much. There just aren't enough weaknesses to exploit that, and bypassing resistance is trivial with force damage (hello eldritch blast again). Granted, we don't know if more of those top tier spells aren't getting nerfed, but right now the design feels way too safe, which means they aren't a contender for BiS for the sorcerer and I don't think they would see much play.

Agree, Arcane eruption is only that rates as "good", rest is: I hope I can convince the DM that he gives me extra cantrip/spells known instead.

 

[Chaosmancer]

"the extent of the illusion is up to you."

Uh huh, but that is only referencing the appearance. It is entirely possible for the DM to rule that if you used a 9th level Shapechange spell to turn into a dragon, that it breaks Disguise Self, a 1st level illusion spell. And unless you specified your illusion to counteract your (as of yet) uncast 5th level spell, that would be a stretch to me.

Yea. I forgot heightened was 1 target only.

Though now I want to use heightened and extended Dream to slowly kill someone.

What does extending Dream do for you?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Agree, Arcane eruption is only that rates as "good", rest is: I hope I can convince the DM that he gives me extra cantrip/spells known instead.

I mean... I'm just going to advocate for WoTC to fix them instead of hoping the DM does.

 

[Horwath]

I mean... I'm just going to advocate for WoTC to fix them instead of hoping the DM does.

Me too, this was only a description on how crappy they are currently.

 

[Asisreo]

Which is fine, but spells that are effectively class abilities should be top tier. Eldritch Blast is pushed above all other cantrips because it's supposed to be a warlock's bread and butter. If it was mid tier, nobody would care. If these sorcerer spells are spells I can only get for leveling in sorcerer, it needs to be pushed like fireball is. They shouldn't automatically be the best, but they should be better than "thanks, I guess".

I think WotC is overvaluing the ability to choose your energy type a little too much. There just aren't enough weaknesses to exploit that, and bypassing resistance is trivial with force damage (hello eldritch blast again). Granted, we don't know if more of those top tier spells aren't getting nerfed, but right now the design feels way too safe, which means they aren't a contender for BiS for the sorcerer and I don't think they would see much play.

I don't necessarily agree. I think EB is good for the warlock but what makes it great isn't that its above all other cantrips, its because it interacts so well with the warlock's base class.

Right now, most of these spells barely have interaction with the sorcerer's class. Incarnate only interacts with the draconic subclass at level 14. Everything else isn't exactly leaning into the sorcerer's abilities all that much. You can tell there's an attempt at metamagic compatibility, but there isn't such a link where, say, the sorcerer that casts empowered sorcerous burst is now doing about as much damage as a first-level spell.

 

[Asisreo]

Hey, uh...has anyone noticed Subtle Spell gets rid of material components...that also come with a cost...

Meaning that for 1 sorcery point, you can cast spells with high cost material components like Simulacrum, scrying, or plane shift.

 

[Nadan]

Hey, uh...has anyone noticed Subtle Spell gets rid of material components...that also come with a cost...

Meaning that for 1 sorcery point, you can cast spells with high cost material components like Simulacrum, scrying, or plane shift.

Only those don't consumed material components can be Subtled away.

 

[Horwath]

Hey, uh...has anyone noticed Subtle Spell gets rid of material components...that also come with a cost...

Meaning that for 1 sorcery point, you can cast spells with high cost material components like Simulacrum, scrying, or plane shift.

they already did that with Aberrant mind sub class and Psionic Sorcery feature.
Works great with Summon aberration.