I'm toying with Sorcery Incarnate also granting a bonus Metamagic ... honestly while this is a 5th level spell, it really doesn't come into it's own after level 13 anyway, because once you have 6 metamagics, it's easier to find 2 to stack on a spell. Until then, stacking 2 of the 3 you know is tricky.
D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Sorceror
- Thread starter Stalker0
- Start date
Horwath
Legend
I really do not like the sorcerer with this playtest.
One thing that is good is balancing metamagic, Twin spell was maybe too powerful, but now it's bad, really bad.
Seeking spell is still horrible metamagic, even with 1 SP cost it would be bad, but passable.
Heighten got a nice cost reduction, but still it should apply to ALL targets.
1st level: Innate sorcery
This is horrible, yeah you could say you got an extra cantrip and extra spell known. Sure, but if it's something I will not use 99% of the time, why spend class resources on that? Just add extra cantrip and spell known(prepared) instead. These two spells are 0/5.
Also, why are they spells? Why can't they be innate abilities that are not spells? So they do not interact with spell limitations?
This is getting so bad that I expect fighters getting Extra attack removed and having access to "Attack" cantrip that will scale on fighters 5th,11th and 17th level.
STOP making everything into spells.
2nd level: Sorcery points: just make converting slots to points and point to slots cost the same. That afraid of Spell points Variant?
3rd level: Ah, I see we are still too stupid to pick a sub class at 1st level so we get more incentive than every to skip 1st and 2nd level of play.
Have a 0-level variant in DMG if you think that all of us cannot grasp a concept of subclass when we create characters!
I like the buff to AC to make it little scalable. And removal of Cha checks mechanics.
5th level:
Ah yes, another spell that should have been an innate ability. Probably usable as a Bonus action.
Self heal for 12HP(+5 cha). A saved fireball deals 14 damage.
Why not make it: after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you regain 1d4 HP per spell level and if the spell is 3rd level or higher you remove one of the mentioned conditions. Make it that it costs a Reaction to use if needs be.
-1/5 feature.
6th level: Nice feature, nothing special. gets the job done right.
7th level: arcane eruption.
Again, do not make it a Spell, make it do 1d6 damage as an Action and every spell slot level add +2d6. Something like a variation of smite with a rider.
9th level and 10th level
here we go, the worst of the worst.
we have to do this together as they thought it will work together.
at 9th level we get another spell that it should have been an innate ability, uses concentration, because why not? Casts a Bonus action SPELL, you can only use a cantrip in 1st round of combat, gives some little SP back, and sometimes give you possibility of two metamagic at once.
This is not worth a 5th level slot and it's not worth you Concentration slot.
Then we get draconic breath err exhalation.
Since 9th level feature is a Bonus action spell, you can use this "great" feature to cast your "free" cantrip from 1st level with more effect.
But, that spell was crap at 1st level and giving it advantage on your attack roll with pathetic AoE will not make that cantrip any better.
Wanna do draconic breath?
Action; you deal 4d6 damage in 30ft cone. you can spend a spell slot to add +2d6 damage per spell slot level. Done
14th level: Yes, at will flight was too OP at 14th level, so we just pasted this feature to worst spell that sorcerer gets, to make it slightly less awful. -1/5
15th level: good feature, but devs will do anything except confess that they dropped the ball with 1hr "short" rests.
and what does it means to roll initiative? Is it again a bag of rats and a cantrip to attack them to start the combat.
Or slapping your friend for 1 damage to start the combat?
This on initiative roll has to go away!
GIve us 1min short rests!
18th level:
99,9% of us will not be here, but a very (over)powerful feature. But, it's 18th level and who cares?
Wish maybe needs to be toned down a little, but RNG that is removed is a great move.
Also as a Class capstone, all those features should be at 19th level and FEAT moved to 18th level, but that is a minor problem.
In the end,
excellent 18th level feature,
very good 15th level,
good 7th level, need some tweaks so it's not just another spell.
some decent or the same as current features all over
aaaand, a truckload of horrible features.
One thing that is good is balancing metamagic, Twin spell was maybe too powerful, but now it's bad, really bad.
Seeking spell is still horrible metamagic, even with 1 SP cost it would be bad, but passable.
Heighten got a nice cost reduction, but still it should apply to ALL targets.
1st level: Innate sorcery
This is horrible, yeah you could say you got an extra cantrip and extra spell known. Sure, but if it's something I will not use 99% of the time, why spend class resources on that? Just add extra cantrip and spell known(prepared) instead. These two spells are 0/5.
Also, why are they spells? Why can't they be innate abilities that are not spells? So they do not interact with spell limitations?
This is getting so bad that I expect fighters getting Extra attack removed and having access to "Attack" cantrip that will scale on fighters 5th,11th and 17th level.
STOP making everything into spells.
2nd level: Sorcery points: just make converting slots to points and point to slots cost the same. That afraid of Spell points Variant?
3rd level: Ah, I see we are still too stupid to pick a sub class at 1st level so we get more incentive than every to skip 1st and 2nd level of play.
Have a 0-level variant in DMG if you think that all of us cannot grasp a concept of subclass when we create characters!
I like the buff to AC to make it little scalable. And removal of Cha checks mechanics.
5th level:
Ah yes, another spell that should have been an innate ability. Probably usable as a Bonus action.
Self heal for 12HP(+5 cha). A saved fireball deals 14 damage.
Why not make it: after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you regain 1d4 HP per spell level and if the spell is 3rd level or higher you remove one of the mentioned conditions. Make it that it costs a Reaction to use if needs be.
-1/5 feature.
6th level: Nice feature, nothing special. gets the job done right.
7th level: arcane eruption.
Again, do not make it a Spell, make it do 1d6 damage as an Action and every spell slot level add +2d6. Something like a variation of smite with a rider.
9th level and 10th level
here we go, the worst of the worst.
we have to do this together as they thought it will work together.
at 9th level we get another spell that it should have been an innate ability, uses concentration, because why not? Casts a Bonus action SPELL, you can only use a cantrip in 1st round of combat, gives some little SP back, and sometimes give you possibility of two metamagic at once.
This is not worth a 5th level slot and it's not worth you Concentration slot.
Then we get draconic breath err exhalation.
Since 9th level feature is a Bonus action spell, you can use this "great" feature to cast your "free" cantrip from 1st level with more effect.
But, that spell was crap at 1st level and giving it advantage on your attack roll with pathetic AoE will not make that cantrip any better.
Wanna do draconic breath?
Action; you deal 4d6 damage in 30ft cone. you can spend a spell slot to add +2d6 damage per spell slot level. Done
14th level: Yes, at will flight was too OP at 14th level, so we just pasted this feature to worst spell that sorcerer gets, to make it slightly less awful. -1/5
15th level: good feature, but devs will do anything except confess that they dropped the ball with 1hr "short" rests.
and what does it means to roll initiative? Is it again a bag of rats and a cantrip to attack them to start the combat.
Or slapping your friend for 1 damage to start the combat?
This on initiative roll has to go away!
GIve us 1min short rests!
18th level:
99,9% of us will not be here, but a very (over)powerful feature. But, it's 18th level and who cares?
Wish maybe needs to be toned down a little, but RNG that is removed is a great move.
Also as a Class capstone, all those features should be at 19th level and FEAT moved to 18th level, but that is a minor problem.
In the end,
excellent 18th level feature,
very good 15th level,
good 7th level, need some tweaks so it's not just another spell.
some decent or the same as current features all over
aaaand, a truckload of horrible features.
MoonSong
Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
But that would mean all subclasses should become blaster-focused which would divert power budget from other areas and make them all play the same.
Chaosmancer
Legend
So, we need to add a THIRD spell to this combo to be worthwhile? And whether or not Disguise Self maintains in the face of this is definitely a DM call. So you might even have to case Incarnate, then Disguise Self, THEN your subtle spell?
Is being able to blind a single enemy, at further range, worth a two turns, a 5th level spell, a 2nd level spell, and 3 sorcery points? Compared to doing it at 30 ft for a 2nd level spell and 2 pts?
Maybe, but that is a niche situation.
Heightened Fireball is a bad call, unless you think you will kill the enemy with that single attack, because it only gives disadvantage to a single enemy
Twin + Careful is one that works, but it only works on the third turn, and if you are spamming fireballs at that point... is the twin saving a single 3rd level slot worth losing a 5th level slot?
Maybe? But it would have to be an epic effect to be worth two turns and a 5th level slot to set off, and I'm just not convinced, since at 9th level, your 5th level slots are your biggest moves.
Chaosmancer
Legend
Oof, I didn't even realize that
Chaosmancer
Legend
I will say, if the game tripled the number of spell attack spells, and gave us some really awesome ones... I could see this direction for the sorcerer working. They have decent ideas here. Like, tje 1st level cantrip and spell aren't a bad idea, they just need buffed.
Oh! Now THERE is an idea. Here is a good change for Sorcery Incarnate, make it so whenever you cast a spell, you regain hp equal to the spell's level + your charisma mod. That would feel pretty cool.
Remathilis
Legend
Upon reflection, I think I no longer like the "class feature spells". Most of them El are far too weak for their class level. Sorcerous burst needed to be a d8. Chaos Bolt needs to be 3d8 +1d8 per level. Arcane Eruption needs to be level 3 or 8d6 starting. Sorcerous vitality should be a class feature that scales with level, and sorcery incarnate should also be a class feature usable prof/day. None of those spells are worth a slot. Maybe if you gave a free cast of each, you'd see them used.
Which is a shame; I like the flavor. Just each of those spells are trumped by something better on the arcane spell list.
Which is a shame; I like the flavor. Just each of those spells are trumped by something better on the arcane spell list.
The only upside of being spells is can be metamagic-ed, but only 2 out of 4, SB and AB, have some value to be meta-ed, and even that just bump them up to usable.
I am not against the idea they being spells, but even as spell they're on the weak end.
Last edited:
mellored
Legend
"the extent of the illusion is up to you."
"you can target one additional creature for each slot level above 2nd."
Yea. I forgot heightened was 1 target only.
Though now I want to use heightened and extended Dream to slowly kill someone.
Dream
Cast time: 1 minutes
Any spell which's cast time is longer than 1 action need to concentrate and repeat using magic action every turn until you reach the time listed.
I think before you trying to make any examples you should read again what the spell actual do and required.
Similar Threads
