4.5E: When?

[Glyfair]

They'll never use the ".5" terminology again, it was too universally criticized. They will probably have re-organized/expanded core rulebooks in 2-3 years, but without the level of changes we saw in 3.5, followed by 5E in 2013-2014.

WotC has said that they have decided that 8-10 years seems to be the "sweet spot" for a new edition. Assuming they stick to that (an uncertain thing in these days of rotating management), the earliest we'd see a 5E is 2016.

They have also said, in no uncertain terms, there will not be a "4.5." The whole PHB, MM & DMG every year seems to be designed to avoid that situation.

So, I do not believe there will be a 4.5. However, there will be a 5E, so no poll answer really fits my position. (and the "it will be called 5E" doesn't qualify, because 5E will be more substantial than a 4.5 would be).

 

[Aus_Snow]

I don't believe there will be a '4.5', and find calling 4th editiion '4.0' to be a little. . . no, never mind. Ill-informed, perhaps, to give some folks the benefit of the doubt.

Also, there has been a promise, from WotC, that there won't be a 4.5. I suspect they will keep this particular promise, in letter and in spirit.

 

[jdrakeh]

There will never be a 4.5E "official" release. No, it is much more likely that each new PHB, MM, and DMG will contain all of the rules revisions and errata that would have gone into a 4.5 Edition, with a note stating that these edits supercede the rules in previous books.

This worries me.

Why does this worry you? This is how the overhwelming majority of publishers in RPG-dom handle new printings of older games until they're ready to implement a completely new edition. They're called "revised" printings. For example, the GURPS 3e Basic Set had at least three different revisions (and possibly more).

 

[blargney the second]

Why-o-why are the magic items in the PHB?

That's easy. Who uses magic items more at the table: players or DMs?

My copy of the MIC stays out on the player side of the DM screen for easy reference.

 

[CleverNickName]

Why does this worry you? This is how the overhwelming majority of publishers in RPG-dom handle new printings of older games until they're ready to implement a completely new edition. They're called "revised" printings. For example, the GURPS 3e Basic Set had at least three different revisions (and possibly more).

Perhaps "worry" was too strong of a word. What I meant was, this doesn't appeal to me. I don't want to have to keep buying books in order for my rules to stay "current." (I'd rather they release one set of 400+ page rulebooks every 7-8 years, instead of releasing a collection of 150-page ones named I, II, and III every other year.)

I know that it has its advantages, and I know that it isn't unique to 4th Edition. I just don't care for it, that's all.

 

[TimeOut]

"2009 - Although only in a sly way; WotC will slip improvements into later print-runs"

Because that is the closest thing to "There will be no 4.5, only errata" in my mind.

 

[jdrakeh]

Perhaps "worry" was too strong of a word. What I meant was, this doesn't appeal to me. I don't want to have to keep buying books in order for my rules to stay "current."

Then you'd better find another hobby! Incidentally, I must state that you're the first (if not the only) person I've ever seen demand less errata from publishers

Seriously, though, incorporating errata and rule revisions into RPG rule books between printings is standard practice and I can't think of too many publishers off the top of my head who don't do it. It seems that it might simply be an out of sight out of mind thing, in your case. That is, It seems that when you weren't aware of the practice, it never bothered you in the least, but now that you know about it and are aware of it, you don't like it at all.

To wit, WotC has been updating the core D&D books in this manner since shortly after the release of 3.0 -- I had at least two different printings of the D&D 3.0 PHB, one of which was a first printing with expanded quick play rules and plenty of errors; the other of which was a second printing, which was missing the quick play rules but incorporated a good deal of errata. While I didn't buy further copies of the PHB, I am certain that the subsequent printing were handled in the same manner.

Even the AD&D 1e books were updated between printings*. Here's a look at changes in the Monster Manual and DMG*. Many newer games like Shadowrun 4e have already seen multiple printings (I believe that it is on the third or fourth printing) with errata incorporation. The practice even affected the original D&D woodgrain and white box sets. It's literally been applied since the beginning of RPGs and continues to be applied to this day.

I know that it has its advantages, and I know that it isn't unique to 4th Edition. . .

The point is that the practice of incorporating errata and rule changes between printings and without declaring a new edition isn't just not uncommon, it's the way things are done (and have been done for decades) in the RPG hobby, with very few exceptions.

If a publisher had to declare a new edition of a game any time that they wanted to incorporate errata into a book, they'd go bankrupt very quickly. Just look at how much turmoil an edition change every ten years or so creates!

I'd rather they release one set of 400+ page rulebooks every 7-8 years, instead of releasing a collection of 150-page ones named I, II, and III every other year.)

Wait. . . I may have misunderstood (but I don't want to waste all of the elegant explanation). Are you saying that you have no problem with publishers incorporating errata and rule revisions into subsequent printings of the same book but, rather, that your issue is with publishers printing companion volumes (e.g., PHB II) with additional information and the errata for core volumes contained therein? If so, that's quite different.

*Oddly, while the AD&D 1e PHB errata was released, it was never incorporated into any subsequent print versions of the PHB (so there are some unusual exceptions to the rule).

 

[The Cardinal]

There will never be a 4.5E "official" release. No, it is much more likely that each new PHB, MM, and DMG will contain all of the rules revisions and errata that would have gone into a 4.5 Edition, with a note stating that these edits supercede the rules in previous books.

100% correct

 

[Old Gumphrey]

100% correct

Basically what that means is each new core set would have current errata plus brand new content. I'd like that.

 

[Ydars]

I think there WILL be a major re-write of the core rules within a relatively short space of time; I love 4E as a game but it reads SO badly, is so ambigious, contains rules that are broken (skill challenges) and simultaneously leaves out fluff and rules clarifications needed by newbies (whilst overwhelming them with detail) and also leaves out material that many of us more ardent gamers would consider core (druids, barbarians, more rituals etc) that a major re-write is inevitable.

I suspect that after some more supplements and splat books emerge they will create some sort of collectors edition or a set of core books that combine with material from a few splat books to re-write the core; maybe even as a set of Heroic-tier, Paragon-Tier and Epic Tier core rulebooks.

They will have to dress it up as something else, but they will also have so much errata that they will have no choice; in the end, even we may be asking for such a product because, whilst 4E has largely acheived its design goals as the game is played, it almost completely fails as a physical product.