4 elven bow rangers and a leader....ultimate party?

[Truename]

I think swarms of minions would be a threat to this party. In a recent one-off, I had two strikers and a defender (fighter, warlock, and ranger) go up against a controller, a few artillery, and a bunch of artillery minions. The minions were the biggest challenge--no threat individually, but they got a lot of attacks and whittled the party down.

Also, one leader isn't a lot of healing for four soft targets, since the leader only gets a handful of heals per encounter.

 

[Felon]

My group is about to start a new game, and some of the talk is about the extreme power of rangers. Personally from my look at rangers, they do seem like the most powerful overall class, tons of damage, great skills (especially perception), amazing mobility, etc.

What they are talking about is making 4 elven bow rangers, using their feats to round out their skills (like diplomacy and the like) and then having one leader for healing and buffing.

Minions....with twin strike 4 rangers would blow through minions.
Brutes....4 rangers do so much damage they could rip through hitpoints.

So here's the question, is this party actually better than the standard 4 roles?

Bow rangers have some much mobility and a decent amount of hitpoints that it doesn't seem like a defender is that needed. Death being the ultimate condition, a wizard doesn't seem as needed when you can mow through armies with twin strike and obliterate single targets.

What do you guys think?

I'm playing one of three rangers in a humans-only campaign. One focuses on archery, another on two-weapons fighting with high-damage powers, and I gravitate towards immediate action powers. The amount of diversity is sufficient if not ideal. The other characters are a fighter, cleric, and wizard, so there are no role-holes in this party.

Archery is pretty gross with a d12 being the default value of "W". But honestly, I can't see going range-heavy in a game where you often don't get to choose or even preview your battlegrounds. What happens when your positions get overrun? What happens in close quarters? Don't spend too much time fixating on the DPS that they have on paper. They'll have problems in actual gameplay.

To some degree, you overestimate the toughness of rangers. They don't have powers that bestow temporary hit points or spend healing surges, so they just take damage on the chin. They don't have shields either. You'll be surprised how quickly the party leader runs out of healing/inspiring words.

 

[Plane Sailing]

To some degree, you overestimate the toughness of rangers. They don't have powers that bestow temporary hit points or spend healing surges, so they just take damage on the chin.

QFT. It is often overlooked how much the defenders benefit from their healing powers - the fighter in my campaign depends a lot upon his regeneration and comeback strike to keep going.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I think having four rangers will end up being a "Mother , may I" kind of game. As long as the DM does not exploit their weaknesses, or even set up a normal variety of challenges, they should do well. But if the DM gives a normal variety of encounters, then the Rangers are gonna be hurting. Why?

1: One leader cannot heal four other people. That is just too much, and Rangers have no healing abilities of their own. If they multi-class, it will help, but will still be difficult.

2: Having rangers running wily-nilly all over the battlefield is not a good thing. Rangers do best moving around when defenders have pinned enemies down.

3: This will be a party with little staying power. Rangers have a weak selection of encounters and dailies that last a whole fight. Instead hey are shot off quickly and do not affect teh whole fight. That is one ara defenders shine with their stances.

4: If their leader goes down, so does the whole party. This party should be ok with a 15 minute workday, but I cannot see them going through a lot of different encounters a day, much less reaching a milestone.

5: And finally, Rangers are the worst strikers for giving enemies conditions. They do not slow down or stop the enemy from doing their thing at all. Rogues and especially warlocks do that with ease.

 

[Remathilis]

I think the group falls apart the minute a wise controller or solo targets that leader, then slowly works through a ranger at a time.

One or two might survive if they run, but I'm sure a solo red dragon might make them reconsider this tactic...

However, a 4 + extra striker is bee's knees.

 

[Jack99]

4 elven bow rangers and a leader....ultimate party?

Not even in the top 10 is my guess

 

[Felon]

I think the group falls apart the minute a wise controller or solo targets that leader, then slowly works through a ranger at a time.

One or two might survive if they run, but I'm sure a solo red dragon might make them reconsider this tactic...

Honestly? I see four strikers--especially four rangers--being as ideal against a red dragon as any balanced four-role party. What should they be replaced with? A wizard? A solo monster is the antithesis of what the wizard was built to fight, and he'll drop quickest of all. A defender? Not bad, but their melee emphasis allows the dragon to literally fly rings around them.

As to throwing a controller at them, the eladrin rangers will have two good weapons for fighting a controller: the mobility to scatter so they're not in a boxable formation, and the ability to strike from range. Fey step can get you out of a lot snares.

This combo is far from non-viable. The rangers' bane is going to be enemies with high AC (because that's pretty much all the ranger can target), high speed, ranged attacks, and threatening reach. Of course, outdoor battles will favor them, and indoor battles won't.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Confined spaces, bottlenecks and controllers, I reckon will give them a lot of toruble. They can dish out tons of damage and will have trouble in staying range of the leader and if the leader goes they are also in trouble.
On the other hand for the first four rounds they are hell on wheels.

 

[Korgoth]

#15. Lure the tiger down from the mountain.

 

[ashockney]

That's a cool idea, and it would be fun to play. I'm reviewing encounters that I've run in 4e from KoTS and ThunderLab...

These guys would get their lunch handed to them in about 1/3 of the encounters. They are the ones that are the exact OPPOSITE of my party. I am currently running a six man party with two defenders. Man, is that tough in close quarters in a 10' wide passage. Unbelievable, and it comes up quite often. I agree that a controller would make you even filthier. I could see a very powerful six man party with perhaps a warlord, controller, and four strikers being really tough. There are other encounters I ran, with many ranged attackers, artillery, and controllers that your party would destroy. Those encounters would probably be laughable.

Either way, it would be fun to see how it plays.