OD&D 4E and its effect on 1E/OD&D

[Philotomy Jurament]

i'm running an OD&D(1974) campaign currently. i plan to continue doing so.

and i'm always open to getting more volunteers.

I'm running OD&D(1974), too. My current group is full, but if anyone in the north Houston area is interested, I'd be willing to run OD&D for another group.

 

[Valiant]

Not caring about earlier versions of the game is not hostility toward earlier versions of the game.

AD&D was/is not a simple game system, by any stretch of the imagination.

Quasqueton

If you don't care one way or the other great. I didn't say you did. But others are at times hostile to 1E (as well as C&C), which is unfortunate. Its a small gaming community already. We should try to get along.

For us, 1E is simpler to run: generating PCs with (no customizing) takes 5 minutes, combat goes faster (also less record keeping, DM sees if you hit, no feats and skills to keep up with).

1Es rules boil down to role a d6 to see which side goes first, role to hit with a d20 and the DM looks on a table to see if you hit (the Weapon Speed Factor is optional). Yeah, the 1E books read crazy (thanks Mr. Gygax) but once understood are very simple. Check out OSRIC to understand them.

Anyhow, this is just my groups experiance. 3.5 can't be beat for customizations, and for some DMs its the way to go. Both are great games. That was my point.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Not caring about earlier versions of the game is not hostility toward earlier versions of the game. I played earlier versions of D&D, but I prefer the current version of the game. If the next version somehow turns out to be crap, I'll stick with the current version; I won't feel the need to regress to an earlier version.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that indifference = hostility. However a quick perusal of past edition-war core meltdowns on these and other forums will show you that yes, there are people who have a bona-fide hate-on for older versions of D&D.

I never understood the need of earlier versions players to constantly try to sell the earlier versions to the current version players.

Likewise, I never understood the inundation of players of the current version to convince me to switch from D&D (1974) or AD&D (1st edition).

AD&D was/is not a simple game system, by any stretch of the imagination.

Compared to much of 3.5? Yes, yes it is. By every stretch of the imagination.

 

[seskis281]

I fail to see how the release of 4e is going to get people interested in looking at 1e. Seriously; what's the logic there? Sounds more like wishful thinking to me. I think 3.5e players like 4e, they'll move to 4e. If they don't, they'll stay with 3.5e for the time being. Why would they suddenly look to 1e, OSRIC or C&C if they haven't already?

I never understood why people think there is such hostility. Most 3e players (at least those that post and vote in polls and stuff around here, and those I know from my local groups as well) all played the older editions back when they were current. I know I did, and I left D&D altogether because of 1e, honestly. It was a clunky system, not a simple system, and it didn't allow me to do what I wanted with the game without massive rework. I'm not saying 3.5 is the be-all end-all either, but it benefits from decades of watching D&D, the rest of the RPG market outside D&D, and seeing what works and what doesn't and putting it all together in a reasonably attractive package. I wouldn't go back to 1e; and frankly if my group were suddenly consumed with a desire to do so, I'd probably give the game a pass.

But I'm not hostile towards it. I do get a little peeved at the elitist grognards who think it's cool to constantly piss on 3e, though. Not that I'm sensing you're one of those, but sadly it's a common vibe from some. I am somewhat hostile towards being insulted for my preferences.

I think the intent of some is to ask if this move will make those who ONLY know 3.x as "the D&D system" check out earlier editions. Your point about preference is absolutely right, and there certainly is enough "elitism" from all ends of the RPG perspective. I've DMd every edition from Basic through 3.0 (didn't go for 3.5). Now I use C&C. As with you, this is just my perspective and preference.

As for the effect. For the gamers who, like you, have played lots of editions, each will have their preference still and this won't change that most likely. For many who only know 3.0/3.5, there could indeed be some examination of earlier systems or modern alternatives like True20, C&C, perhaps even the new EPIC. Like others, some will find an alternative they like better, some will look at these systems and say "nope, not what I want." For the bulk of players, I'm willing to bet they follow two courses: stay with current 3.x or switch to 4e. Those that continue are blessed with a different world than when earlier editions ended thanks to the OGL, but may find themselves feeling a little of the same antagonism come 5-10 years down the road as the "grognards" (as you refer to them) do now when there isn't the same level of lush, well-packaged published materials. And, sooner or later, 4e (or 5e or 6e) players will ask "why are you guys so elitist about that outdated system?"

Kind of like kids and their "darn music!" syndrome, heh?

 

[ruleslawyer]

quote=thedungeondelver]Compared to much of 3.5? Yes, yes it is. By every stretch of the imagination.[/quote]
THAC0 tables. Save tables. Grappling and pummeling rules. Object saving throws. Weapon speed factors. Wilderness directions and getting lost. Grenade-like missiles. Facing. NPC reaction tables.

Would you like me to go on?

 

[Umbran]

With 4E coming out, I wonder if we'll see more 3.5 players start looking at 1E and OSRIC/C&C (and other new 1E support material).

I can't see any plausible reason why 3.5 players would see this release of a new version as a reason to go back and look at the old stuff again. I just don't see what here would motivate them to do so. If you own a 2007 Saturn car, and they roll out the new 2008 models, do you start thinking, "Well, gee, maybe I ought to buy a car built in 2003!" The natural question is "Move forward or stand pat?" Retrospection is probably not something you should expect.

Why not get people to actually take a look at the original game.

You seem to start with the question, "Would the release of 4e naturally cause 3.5 players to go back and look at earlier editions on their own?" But now you're into something else. This sounds more like, "Would this time of change be a moment that proponents of earlier versions could capitalize upon to win converts?"

Well, any period of change has the potential for gain, if you can figure out how to use it.

 

[WSmith]

THAC0 tables. Save tables. Grappling and pummeling rules. Object saving throws. Weapon speed factors. Wilderness directions and getting lost. Grenade-like missiles. Facing. NPC reaction tables.

Would you like me to go on?

Sure! It is all music to my ears.

 

[diaglo]

Compared to much of 3.5? Yes, yes it is. By every stretch of the imagination.

THAC0 tables. Save tables. Grappling and pummeling rules. Object saving throws. Weapon speed factors. Wilderness directions and getting lost. Grenade-like missiles. Facing. NPC reaction tables.

Would you like me to go on?

please do. i think i'm very close to :fapping:

 

[seskis281]

If you own a 2007 Saturn car, and they roll out the new 2008 models, do you start thinking, "Well, gee, maybe I ought to buy a car built in 2003!" The natural question is "Move forward or stand pat?" Retrospection is probably not something you should expect.

Interesting analogy - so I shouldn't think a vintage Volkswagon Bug would be more appealing than the modern version? Or the 65 Mustang should be worthless today? Classic car owners take note....

 

[Glyfair]

Interesting analogy - so I shouldn't think a vintage Volkswagon Bug would be more appealing than the modern version? Or the 65 Mustang should be worthless today? Classic car owners take note....

Maybe, but a new car model isn't likely to move you to think that way and get a classic one. Either you were interested or you weren't.