D&D 4E 4E boon or bust for Old School support?

[Orcus]

By the way, if anyone is paying attention, you just created Exhibit 1 for any lawsuit against people using OSRIC:

The second issue is OSRIC (aka 1E) compatable modules. OSRIC on the front of a module is code for AD&D.

Hopefully no one thinking of suing someone using OSRIC was reading this post cause you just shot yourself in the foot big time.

See, you dont get to indicate compatability with a clear brand. And you risk trouble by blatantly admitting that you created a code to bypass that problem. Now, I will admit, that isnt a clear violation IMHO but it shure is a problem.

Anyone using OSRIC would have to admit "yes, I was using a clear code that everyoone understands means compatibility with AD&D, something I admit I dont have permission to do and something I admit the publisher of that material does not want me to do."

Clark

Again, this is not legal advice, nor are these scare tactics. I am answering your questions that you asked publically. I have voiced similar issues privately. You asked.

 

[SavageRobby]

I guess my fear is that people who might have otherwise published using OSRIC haven't, and part of the reason relates directly to "scary" comments made by "old school" publishers. That is something that should really stop.

I guess my fear is that someone with no experience in this arena and absolutely nothing at stake will go around telling publishers what they should and shouldn't do, and blame people who have legitimate concerns based off real legal counsel as promoting scare tactics. That is something that should really stop.

 

[Nikosandros]

Orcus,

I can appreciate all your points and I appreciate you sharing them with us. However, I take umbrage at your implication that using OSRIC can even be remotely connected to illegal downloading of music.

 

[Orcus]

It was an example. I'm not saying using OSRIC is like illegally downloading music for goodness sake.

I'm referring to that period of time with Napster when it wasnt yet illegal but we all really knew we shouldnt be getting songs for free. Just because there hasnt been an official declaration of illegality doesnt mean something is right. Similarly, just because WotC hasnt sued or there hasnt been some other determination doesnt mean that it is right to do what OSRIC is doing. It isnt even anywhere near close to on par with the music stuff at all. Just an example.

Clark

 

[Maggan]

Risk management is, of course, always an opinion. Those who are risk-averse will call it dangerous. Those who don't care so much will not think it a big deal.

My thought about this is; it is very simple to discuss this based on what risks you (the general "you") would like OTHER people to take. As soon as it turns into risks you yourself have to take, or is willing to take to back up your claims, the stakes look very, very, very different.

/Magnus

 

[Orcus]

Maggan, well put.

I agree that a way to make 1E compatible stuff is a cool idea. I like the concept. I think it would be neat if there was such a way without the legal risk. But when "I" consider doing it for "my company," not hypothetically but actually doing it, "I" have to say no way. Maybe someone else makes a different decision. But others dont get to make my risk assessment for me. Nor should others make risk assessments based on my opinion alone or on the opinion of those who say "hey, yeah, its all right, its legal!" You've got to figure it out for yourself.

Clark

 

[Valiant]

Orcus: "Hopefully no one thinking of suing someone using OSRIC was reading this post cause you just shot yourself in the foot big time."

Ahhh dude, I thought you said you were an attorney. Its fine for me to say that, I'm not P&P.

Orcus, one option (if you did want to make a few OSRIC modules) would be to make them 100% OGL compliant and then send them over to WOTC to take a look at. Given your position as an established publisher, they might do it.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Orcus, what are your thoughts on producing OGL adventures that could be played with 1E rules without using OSRIC at all? (That is, publish under the OGL, use OGL terms, et cetera, but present the material in a "1E friendly" manner.)

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I'm not P&P.

Or Mythmere. I was wondering about that...

 

[Mythmere1]

By the way, if anyone is paying attention, you just created Exhibit 1 for any lawsuit against people using OSRIC:



Hopefully no one thinking of suing someone using OSRIC was reading this post cause you just shot yourself in the foot big time.

See, you dont get to indicate compatability with a clear brand. And you risk trouble by blatantly admitting that you created a code to bypass that problem. Now, I will admit, that isnt a clear violation IMHO but it shure is a problem.

Anyone using OSRIC would have to admit "yes, I was using a clear code that everyoone understands means compatibility with AD&D, something I admit I dont have permission to do and something I admit the publisher of that material does not want me to do."

Clark

Again, this is not legal advice, nor are these scare tactics. I am answering your questions that you asked publically. I have voiced similar issues privately. You asked.

I'd like to point out that Valiant isn't, as far as I know, one of the two licensees involved with OSRIC (and that's assuming I'm actually a licensee). The only other licensee he could be is Stuart Marshall acting secretly under another name, and I REALLY doubt that.

Valiant's views don't necessarily reflect those of the OSRIC writers (Stuart, and to a much lesser extent me). I don't know who Valiant is.

Necromancer Games is completely entitled to hold whatever views they want to hold, and to say whatever they want to say as long as it's not slander or collusion. ORCUS's views are based on his opinion of a very complex legal structure, so it's not slander. It doesn't "signal" other publishers with prices or do anything anti-competitive like creating a blackball on freelance writers who have written OSRIC material, so it's not illegal collusion. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Obviously, it's possible to step over the line, but just as publishers are being careful about using OSRIC, I'm sure they're also being careful about not stepping over the slander and antitrust lines.