4e Buyers remorse

[I'm A Banana]

I'm not skeptical, only surprised.

I guess my disconnect is, the OP claims that he prefers a more 'wing it' style. So I would imagine that would require *less* prep-time, not more.

So as to not sidetrack this thread, I'll bust out another one that at least explains my perspective. I figured I just had a very idiosyncratic DMing style, since, from all I hear, 4e does a bang-up job reducing the prep-time for most people's campaigns, but maybe there's others who find themselves kind of hung up...hm...

 

[SteveC]

The reason prep time is increaced is-
1)I was a huge just wing it guy and really dont think that belongs in 4e
2)when I say this group is min-maxed-I mean it.,

I just wanted to say that for #1, there's no reason you can't wing it in 4E: I consider it to be one the easiest and most balanced editions to do that with.

What do I mean? Well, between the notes on how monsters are created and the improve rules on 42 in the DMG you can have an excellent idea of what your attacks, Damage, defenses and HP should be. The rest is your creativity!

On the second issue, if a character is really min-maxed, I'd talk about it with them...it's possible that one or more characters are using some "grey areas" in the rules or just aren't doing things legally. If they are all legit, I'd take some time and talk about it, because shifting systems is no way to solve a rules min-max problem...it will just follow you into other systems. You might not think so, but many rules light systems can exacerbate this problem by leaving the GM with no "rules" to back up a decision as to why something can't be done. That can cause players with strong personalities to really bully their way into getting what they want.

If you're burned out on 4E, that's one thing, and as has been suggested, I'd say taking a break is in order. Thinking that another rules set is a magic bullet that will solve these problems, however, is likely to leave you frustrated.

--Steve

 

[N0Man]

The reason prep time is increaced is-
1)I was a huge just wing it guy and really dont think that belongs in 4e
2)when I say this group is min-maxed-I mean it.,

1) Winging it seems to work fine for 4E in my opinion. I'm not sure why you say it doesn't belong. Would you mind explaining this?

2) Maybe the guy min-maxing everyone is partly reducing your fun of it. I've seen that lessen the fun of games for me in the past (3E and 4E). Maybe talk to the group about it.

Often this slows down the game as well, since these players tend to be good at tactics and often want to play the game like a strategy game. Try to encourage your players to be more spontaneous, and allow for room for mistakes. One way to do this is to do it yourself and lead by example. Allow yourself to make a mistake and let things fall where they may, and pick up the pace a little. Many character options are bland and boring if nobody makes tactical mistakes (or sometimes roleplay blunders).

 

[Rel]

If you don't want your books anymore then I can give you my address.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Here's the thread about how 4e made winging it harder for me:

Let me know what you think!

 

[Turtlejay]

Kind of odd you't try to move that aspect of the discussion to a new thread, since the OP's issues were:
1) prep time
2) minmaxing player

And taking the first out of the picture leaves a solidly edition-neutral problem to discuss here. . .and the seeds are already solidly germinating for another locked edition war thread.

It sounds like your group should decide what they want to do, Mr. OP. Minmaxing usually correlates with a large degree of system mastery, which indicates at least some kind of affection for the game. That particular player may resent an edition change mid-adventure, or see it differently than you do.

If you are struggling to prepare an adventure in the same amount of time that you used to, perhaps another group member would like to try DMing? Maybe they will grok the differences and be able to run. Maybe the minmaxer is up to it.

Jay

 

[I'm A Banana]

Kind of odd you't try to move that aspect of the discussion to a new thread

Well, I wasn't going to help the OP solve his problem, so I thought it better if I spun off that little tangent rather than clutter up this one.

Good point about #2 being pretty cross-system. A decent min/maxer will eke the most out of any game, so it probably doesn't matter what you play. The issue is more in the player than anything else.

I wonder if it was the same player who suddenly developed a min/max streak, or if it was a new player, or what...

 

[Wormwood]

If you are struggling to prepare an adventure in the same amount of time that you used to, perhaps another group member would like to try DMing? Maybe they will grok the differences and be able to run. Maybe the minmaxer is up to it.

That really is excellent advice.

 

[Piratecat]

The reason prep time is increaced is-
1)I was a huge just wing it guy and really dont think that belongs in 4e

My prep time dropped to less than a half-hour per game; what with the Compendium, I've gone so wing-it I wonder if I've swung too far.

You should definitely play whatever your group finds most fun, though. Doesn't matter at all what edition it is.

 

[Trihelios]

I can understand the change of edition making you feel less like you can wing it. A GM friend of mine felt the same way about 3rd edition after coming from AD&D. Sometimes when you get a new edition or a new game, you feel that you somehow need to play it 'properly' whereas before you ran the game the way you thought was right for your group.

I think this, and maybe the increased prep time and vulnerability to players min-maxing all comes down to comfort with the new system. You can try to relax and settle in to the new game or perhaps just move back to a system you're more confident with.

You don't have to play 4th edition if it doesn't work for you. There are thousands of games on the market both new and old. Hell, there are plenty of great FREE roleplaying games with no buyers remorse.