D&D 4E 4e Cartoon Mickymouse Roleplay - tame !!

[Garthanos]

In my friend's campaign, casting raise dead has the effect of letting demons/misfortune loose in the world (don't remember the exact details) - if you have a good focused party, if you put profound moral consequences to the act, that should help limit it.

For example, maybe it results in the nearest pregnant person having a miscarriage... how nasty you get is limited only by your imagination and the tone you want in your campaign.

I was about to mention this option too - Wizard of Earth Sea?

 

[Neonchameleon]

0/10 for what you added sorry to say.

9/10 for the other posts.

Our DM is new to 4e so to see some flexible idea's around what appears a very fixed rule based system compared to the more free'r / dangerous older versions.

And thanks fragmented gramar is my speciality.

You really expected to call your thread "Cartoon Mickymouse Roleplay" without people snarking back and treating it as yet another edition war thread?

 

[Garthanos]

I compare AD&D and 4e danger thusly (since I played none in between more than 1 game).

A first level character takes 4 to 5 levels to double his durability.
A fourth or 5th level AD&D character takes 4 to 5 levels to double his durability.
If you want to play minions I suggest a different game D&D is about heros and was supposed to be that way originally (according to Dave Arneson)

And in 4e if you die it will be because of dangerous opposition that somebody chose to confront not because of a single die roll.

Death by stupidity fighting nasty things yup just as possible and acceptable ... but death by tumbling plastic far less likely... and not accepted (of course even Gygax - recommended fudging it when this happened - he seemed to like rolling dice then fixing things by fiat).

And no I don't see how somebody makes a post reeking with mockery then expects it not to be taken as anything but another edition war nonsense.

I nerfed healers (killed off most of them) and resurrection (made it a quest class item with dangers all its own) in AD&D because they made death meaningless then too.

Hit points always were (aside from the botom most few) an abstraction of applied use of skill and fatigue and luck running out more than ever wounds. I really didn't GET that in AD&D in part because the game was schizophrenic about it... with a horrid recovery time which
didn't correspond to what most of the hit points were supposed to be?, by embracing the abstraction 4e gave me Warlords with martial healing and heros whose luck wears out during a given fight and recovers scene to scene in a way consistant with fitigue... instead of magic addicts with healing wands and potions.

In 4e I feel inclined to add wound rules but guess what those were also a favorite of mine from unearthed arcana in earlier editions.

 

[DracoSuave]

Usually you make sense, what is your point here ?

It's pretty obvious.

You're complaining D&D4e's death rules are not hardcore enough, and then bringing up previous editions' death rules which are also not hardcore.

I am trying to make this edition better by getting you to examine its failure.
The rules are too tame as they stand.

Not arguing that point.

You need to have some more edge to death, something, in this version you dont even have to rest a day, or 1 minute.
Its even more cartoony than wow.

Anything short of taking their character sheet, ripping it in half, and telling them to start again is just 'hitting a reset button.'

Constitution loss? Well, that means an average character can die 10 times before they get to remake their character.

Yeah... -that- is SO hard core.

In saying that other RPG death has greater consequence, while 4e has none, you are agreeing with me, cheers.

No, I'm saying that other RPG death has greater consequences, and if you want to go play 1st edition you're still playing a game with minimal consequences for death.

It's the equivalent of putting wearing a biker jacket and shades and using that (and that alone) to qualify yourself as a badass. It's -still- inconsequential and 'mickey mouse'.

Here's the solution for you.

Are you ready?


Don't have the Raise Dead ritual in your game.

ALL YOUR PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED.

This is the best solution that answers all your problems. Problem with a game element? Don't use that game element. No need to complain! Make the game your own!

And you don't even need to make an alternative rulesset to cover what happens. Just say 'There is no Raise Dead', grab their sheet, and mount it on your wall as a trophy.

 

[Obryn]

0/10 for what you added sorry to say.

9/10 for the other posts.

Our DM is new to 4e so to see some flexible idea's around what appears a very fixed rule based system compared to the more free'r / dangerous older versions.

And thanks fragmented gramar is my speciality.

If you're looking for actual help with a game element, rather than edition sniping and/or crazy ranting, you should frankly re-examine your approach.

-O

 

[renau1g]

It's the equivalent of putting wearing a biker jacket and shades and using that (and that alone) to qualify yourself as a badass. It's -still- inconsequential and 'mickey mouse'.

I'm totally hardcore

 

[Black Knight Irios]

It's the equivalent of putting wearing a biker jacket and shades and using that (and that alone) to qualify yourself as a badass. It's -still- inconsequential and 'mickey mouse'.

It's like putting on your robe and wizard hat and pretending to be a wizard... guys this is MADness...

 

[ExploderWizard]

Don't have the Raise Dead ritual in your game.

ALL YOUR PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED.

Beyond this rather obvious adjustment are other things to increase the difficulty for the PC's.

XP Budget- what's that?

Full healing every day bothersome? change extended rest to refresh daily powers and 1d4 healing surges. Full healing takes as long as it takes.

PC's too durable? No problem, PC's become minions to monsters 7 or more levels above them.

 

[Garthanos]

Full healing every day bothersome? change extended rest to refresh daily powers and 1d4 healing surges. Full healing takes as long as it takes.

Wound mechanics I think might be more fun.. . knock down maximum healing surges on crits rolled and whenever they go below zero or fail a death save... and similar things. Let wounds heal over time or via remove affliction ritual etc.

This latter means fast recovery now takes "money" and ritualists get a big smile on. By mid paragon the money wont be significant but if you want gritty you dont play that high of level anyway.

 

[Istar]

You really expected to call your thread "Cartoon Mickymouse Roleplay" without people snarking back and treating it as yet another edition war thread?

No, I am just rating his comment.

1/10 to you for pointing out the obvious.

Its tame, mickymouse roleplay, cartoonish, without some kind of penalty to death.