RefinedBean
First Post
I still say we get rid of Paladins. They're the Clerics moodier, stuffier older brother. They bring sand to a beach; they inject NOTHING new into the game that Clerics or frickin' Fighters couldn't cover.
4E Class Survivor - Round 2
- Thread starter Glyfair
- Start date
Why the Leader-hate? Artificer is gone, and at the current moment Shamans and Warlords are by far in the lead to be voted off this round.
...Is it a coincidence that these are all "new school" support-type classes? Warlord and Shaman are new to 4E (more or less), while Artificer was new in 3.5 Eberron, a distinctly non-traditional setting, but Clerics and Bards aren't up for it yet. (Both of those classes joined D&D in the '70s.)
I suspect "old-school" and/or non-4E gamers are simply voting down the classes they find most offensive to them and their "grognard" ways. If I'm correct, the Swordmage, Avenger, Warden, Invoker, and Warlock, in no particular order, will be the most vulnerable classes in upcoming rounds of voting. (And if I'm right, I think you should reconduct these polls on the 4E board, to see what the difference would have been.)
...Is it a coincidence that these are all "new school" support-type classes? Warlord and Shaman are new to 4E (more or less), while Artificer was new in 3.5 Eberron, a distinctly non-traditional setting, but Clerics and Bards aren't up for it yet. (Both of those classes joined D&D in the '70s.)
I suspect "old-school" and/or non-4E gamers are simply voting down the classes they find most offensive to them and their "grognard" ways. If I'm correct, the Swordmage, Avenger, Warden, Invoker, and Warlock, in no particular order, will be the most vulnerable classes in upcoming rounds of voting. (And if I'm right, I think you should reconduct these polls on the 4E board, to see what the difference would have been.)
Meet Eladrin Greatspear TacLord.Kill the Warlord... any martial class who has an at-will power that is basically... "here you take an extra sub-optimal attack while I just stand here, no I insist"... needs to be shown the door. How is that awesome?
Hawke
Explorer
Yeah I don't know... I think it's interesting the Cleric is faring so well but the other leaders are not. In my opinion, the Warlord would've been the first to go - something just doesn't sit right with the implementation of that concept. I've never been interested in playing a Shaman, though I feel like if I were forced to I'd probably like it okay. I'm pretty impressed that other than that all these classes are something I look at and would like to play.
Tallifer
Hero
I liked playing a cleric now and then in 1st edition: everyone wanted me in the party and everyone wanted to keep me happy. Likewise in on-line roleplaying games like Dark Age of Camelot. Also, I like the party to overcome great obstacles: my own personal glory will come from that.
And now I love the warlord for the same reason. Everyone needs a tactical warlord, because everyone needs to hit the high defenses more than half the time.
Basically he is the Sergeant character in every great war movie: the grizzled veteran who keeps the party going. (Or the Forrest Gump whose unfathomable optimism and sense of duty sees the platoon through.)
And now I love the warlord for the same reason. Everyone needs a tactical warlord, because everyone needs to hit the high defenses more than half the time.
Basically he is the Sergeant character in every great war movie: the grizzled veteran who keeps the party going. (Or the Forrest Gump whose unfathomable optimism and sense of duty sees the platoon through.)
After playing the Invoker today at WWGD my second go-around(The first time I played the Swordmage), I've got to say that you couldn't pay me to do that again. I must admit I mostly picked him to a: try the class because there's no way I'd make one for a home game and b: I wanted the mini for him. But ugh, not playing an Invoker again. Maybe it was a lousy invoker or I don't get controllers or it's the fact that I still have no idea what the hell sort of schtick they're supposed to have other than 'I'm a divine wizard', but I just never really got into it or found my stride.
The Swordmage on the other hand was a blast and I greatly enjoyed it and felt like I was doing my job keeping stuff off the other players, even with it being an aegis I wouldn't likely use and only having two powers I would normally actually pick.
So yeah, next round, DEATH TO THE INVOKER.
The Swordmage on the other hand was a blast and I greatly enjoyed it and felt like I was doing my job keeping stuff off the other players, even with it being an aegis I wouldn't likely use and only having two powers I would normally actually pick.
So yeah, next round, DEATH TO THE INVOKER.
Blizzardb
First Post
Looks like the Warlord and Shaman are next. Seems like people just don't dig the non-standard (and, IMO - interesting) leaders in the game. Personally, i would kick out the Cleric and the Bard way before the Artificer and those two guys.
My current vote-out list:
1. Warlock
2. Invoker
3. Swordmage
4. Warden
My current vote-out list:
1. Warlock
2. Invoker
3. Swordmage
4. Warden
FireLance
Legend
I think the anti-"new leader" bias is just a subset of the general "anti-new" bias. The classes with the top six number of votes in this poll (and the previous one) were either introduced in 4e or in late 3e. Last round, the six were: artificer, warlord, shaman, warlock, invoker and swordmage. This round, the artificer is no longer around (got voted off) but the warden made an appearance.
In addition, the two classes occupying the seventh and eight slots in both rounds were the paladin and the wizard, arguably the two classes that were changed the most by the transition to 4e.
FireLance
Legend
O Warlord! My Warlord! Your journey here is done;
Your commanding presence no longer shall be felt.
Was it the army's taint
That resulted in your rank?
Were you filed away, rejected,
For the novel way you healed?
Or in giving up your actions,
Was your victory also lost?
Alas, another leader leaves the field.
Your commanding presence no longer shall be felt.
Was it the army's taint
That resulted in your rank?
Were you filed away, rejected,
For the novel way you healed?
Or in giving up your actions,
Was your victory also lost?
Alas, another leader leaves the field.
Seriously, I agree with the earlier posts.
There's an anti-new class bias here but really, the same thing occurs in ANY nerd group.
Do a survivor of "Avengers or Legionnaires" on ComicBookResources and pretty much you can predict the first to go will be the newer Avengers/Legionnaires.
Personally, I'm still voting for the ranger. Most boring class in the game IMO. BOTH in build AND execution. Someone on another thread mentioned that the 4e Ranger is the 1e/2e Fighter of 4e (simple to build and simple to play and yet highly effective) and that is very true.
There's an anti-new class bias here but really, the same thing occurs in ANY nerd group.
Do a survivor of "Avengers or Legionnaires" on ComicBookResources and pretty much you can predict the first to go will be the newer Avengers/Legionnaires.
Personally, I'm still voting for the ranger. Most boring class in the game IMO. BOTH in build AND execution. Someone on another thread mentioned that the 4e Ranger is the 1e/2e Fighter of 4e (simple to build and simple to play and yet highly effective) and that is very true.
