4E Class Survivor - Round 5

[Garthanos]

A quick look at the compendium suggests you can make a swordmage where all but two powers normally acquired are Fire (1 at-will and a level 25 daily) or Lightning (1 at-will and a level 1 daily). Cold, thunder, and force all have enough powers that you can choose any one of them for more than 2/3 of your normally acquired powers.

Wierdly I want sword dancers which are very nearly martially cast... where its mostly hyperspeed for the magic ;=). No you arent teleporting you are moving very very fast... and that attack which harmed one guy big and his friends too well you were whirlygig ing and ended with a massive stab on the him. etc.

Its non-elemental ;-).

 

[Kirnon_Bhale]

Sorcerer needs to go. Of all the classes I just can't stand it. Please support my crusade.

 

[Jack99]

You're getting old and complacent Jack. You want to vote off one of the most innovative classes (FINALLY a viable, lightly-armored swordsman who can stay in the front line AND has the best at-will EVER in Lightning Lure). Yet you don't say anything about the boring, predictable, doesn't do anything special ranger? Do you pass on gourmet meals to sit home and eat mac & cheese with hot dogs cut up in it while the VCR records "Wheel of Fortune"?

It my kids. They are going to put me into an early grave...

Okay, seriously. While I agree that the Swordmage is fairly innovative and definitely viable, I want it dead because it doesn't fit what I wanted. I wanted a striker/defender or a defender/striker, not a defender/controller.

Now, If you are going to claim the swordmage does defender/striker well, I am gonna have to ask for proof - or have to call BS. I generally think I have a fairly decent grasp of the 4e rules, and I just don't see it. And it's not for a lack of trying.

Cheers

 

[Leatherhead]

I voted against the Avenger, because it is a very silly class suffering from role confusion and severe archetype overlap.

 

[Leatherhead]

I think it is time to do away with the controllers. Not enough punch to put enemies down, WOTC was too stingy with status effects, they don't have a lot of staying power, and they bore me to tears.

But Invoker first, bland bland bland.

Why would you want to get rid of the only controller who has a class feature that actually controls more than once a combat?

 

[Cadfan]

A quick look at the compendium suggests you can make a swordmage where all but two powers normally acquired are Fire (1 at-will and a level 25 daily) or Lightning (1 at-will and a level 1 daily). Cold, thunder, and force all have enough powers that you can choose any one of them for more than 2/3 of your normally acquired powers.

With a sufficiently large elemental grab bag, you can start crafting your own themes. However,

1. The game works against you. If you're going for a force theme, you won't be happy to find that half the force powers you might have taken are intended for use by different builds from yours. The same is true for other options.

2. There's no guarantee these powers will work together in any worthwhile or meaningful way, and there's not enough of them that you can choose the right cold power for you- instead, you'll be taking the only cold power for you.

3. Taking a big pile of powers that use the same element is really the absolute least that you and the game can do to help you theme a coherent character.

 

[Cadfan]

Why would you want to get rid of the only controller who has a class feature that actually controls more than once a combat?

Most of its low level powers are kind of lame. I think WotC heard people demanding more "control" in their controllers, and decided that the best way to do this was to take a wizard, make all the explosions smaller and less damaging, and have them inflict minor status effects. This hasn't worked out.

I keep changing my Preserving Invoker's encounter powers, over and over, and find that I never use them. Ever. I just use Hand of Radiance.

 

[Herschel]

It my kids. They are going to put me into an early grave...

Okay, seriously. While I agree that the Swordmage is fairly innovative and definitely viable, I want it dead because it doesn't fit what I wanted. I wanted a striker/defender or a defender/striker, not a defender/controller.

Now, If you are going to claim the swordmage does defender/striker well, I am gonna have to ask for proof - or have to call BS. I generally think I have a fairly decent grasp of the 4e rules, and I just don't see it. And it's not for a lack of trying.

Cheers

It depends on your foe. If you go Eladrin, take the Eladrin Soldier feat and a few others, you can boost single target damage nicely. It won't be rogue-esque, but you'll have more surges and HP. You could also go Fullblade with one and only get the +1 to AC vs. the +3.

I prefer (and play) Genasi, Assault, boost Strength at INT-2 (17 & 19 to start after racials) and Incendiary Sword and Flame Cyclone do nicely against balanced attackers. Earthsoul with Earthshock Master and a Vengeful Weapon, Burning Blade and an action point, while conditional, can put out pretty solid damage on a single target too when facing that big solo.

(d8+10 Earthshock)+(2d12+10+10 Spikes of Agony)+(2d12+10+10 Be Gone)+(9 Spikes of Agony secondary effect).

That's an average of 14+32+32+9 or 87 in a round if the Earthshock (which is reliable with the feat and a minor) goes off. Then you're at +4 to hit the prone baddie.


The Striker/Defender is more the Avenger. Paired with a Swordmage they make a nice, versatile combo.
I prefer to stick with the Long Sword to keep the +3 proficiency and AC boost but that's certainly not the only way.

 

[Garthanos]

I like less when the game hands me themes than when I might have to work a little to get them.(in MTG I build strange things like Wolf Decks that beat other peoples quickly easy made Goblin Decks )
So I guess I like grab bags... and Swordmages are more than just elemental I find hypnotic swirling swords that you can call to your hand and forced dimensional penetration and quickly conjured shields are quite cool thematically... I find explicit use of ones off hand for defensive spell craft ... interesting... and I have my swordmage use his sword and all attack powers left handed and protect and heal always with his right hand (via a little multiclassing/background).

I talked about re-energizing powers because I thought some of the cold effects actually skinned more uniquely and intriguingly as lightning... it became more interesting for me (in part because I had to work at it a little).

Themes are so subjective...
Tempest Build Fighter? why not use a Ranger....for pity's sake.

 

[Nai_Calus]

See, I hate single-element stuff, because it's such an incredibly weak 'theme', and foolish were this real life to boot, the instant you run into something immune or even resistant to your One True Element.

Grab Bag O' Elements, chances are good you've got at least one thing you can do that'll not only smack them, but smack them well.

Not that smacking them well is even really the point of Swordmage, especially not Shielding Swordmage.

I think my huge problem with the pregen Invoker for the DMG2 Gameday, speaking of Defender/Controller, was that I felt more like I was controlling with the pregen Swordmage than I did with the Invoker.