4e Combat Frustrating Instead of Fun?

[Doug McCrae]

But if you fight normal brutes you'll be hitting 80% of the time. System looks fine to me. How was the cleric useless? He doesn't have to roll to hit to use his Healing Word.

Stat bonus of +4 or +5, +1 for level 2, +2 or +3 from weapon, +0 or +1 from class ability, +0 or +1 for magic weapon, +2 flanking. That gives a range of +9 to +13, a 40-60% chance to hit AC22, or 50% on average. 50% is, imo, absolutely fine, in fact it's a bit high for a +[level] boss.

 

[Grimstaff]

plus you can "aid" in combat, which gives the melee-weak PCs a way to contribute to fighting a big bad like the dragon.

 

[Mercule]

I guess I just looked at the 50% and left it at that. I do tend to agree with others that solos are not expected to be the norm. I think that same level 4 solo black dragon was used in a convension module explicitly for the purpose of demonstrating that 4e can still TPK. That that as you will.

One of the major informants of 4e design was that the 3e model of using primarily what are solos just wasn't much fun. So, 4e is supposed to use something closer to 1:1, with minions, elites, and solos thrown in to spice things up. As I'm trying to apply 4e encounter principles to my ongoing 3.5 game, I'm favoring minions over solos by a pretty good margin.

 

[Wik]

Yeah, I fail to see the problem. Mind you, I haven't used a solo fight yet... hopefully, I'll have a chance to throw one at the PCs fairly soon.

 

[Jack99]

My 4e campaign recently started and I'm not sure if this is mainly the DM's fault or of it's more of a problem with the 4e combat system in general. My party is level 2 and contains a cleric, fighter, paladin, rogue, warlock, and wizard, and our DM matched us up against the low-level black dragon solo monster in the monster manual (I don't have it on hand, but I think he's a 4th level solo and counts as an ECL3). The DMG classifies ECL3 to be "standard" difficulty, but it was incredibly frustrating to be fighting the dragon.

Solo fights are the only thing that can cause this problem IME. They are a bit tricky.

 

[LostSoul]

Is there something that we're missing as players that would make the combat easier?

If you want to increase your hit rate, have someone play a Warlord.

 

[Obryn]

This is my one fear about the system. Time will tell how it is for my group - I haven't tried a big solo encounter yet - but if it drags, I may revise my opinion of 4e combat. (Which is currently extremely high, fwiw.)

-O

 

[Shroomy]

I find that extremely hard to credit, to be honest. Ganging up on something is hardly the most impressive use of "teamwork" to my mind, but there you go.

I think that solo combats demand more teamwork than a standard encounter. PCs need to work together to maximize their attacks and damage; the defenders needs to draw attacks away from the strikers, who need to position themselves to be more effective, while the leader buffs and the controller helps out by targeting the solo's other, weaker defenses, throws out debilitating effects (especially ones that grant combat advantage), and change the battlefield terrain. Plus you'll probably need to spend action points to gain more actions.

While I don't have any gameplay proof, based on what I've read and observed, I suspect that as players become more accustomed to working closely together as a group, solo combats will become more like combat against a group of standard creatures. I mean, you can't run around willy-nilly, nova'ing with your daily and encounter powers at the first opportunity (probably only hitting 50% of the time), and then fall back on your at-will powers. That's a recipe for a long slog. Working together is a must.

 

[Stalker0]

As others have mentioned, aid another I think is a big part of fighting a solo.

With a +9 on my attack, I may have little chance of hitting the dragon, but I have a 95% chance to give me buddy a +2 to attack with his upcoming daily. The defenders can use their attacks to give the strikers bonus to attack rolls, and I think you will see your damage go up rather quickly.

 

[malraux]

I guess the frustration that the group has stems from the fact that since we need to be rolling 10+ every time to hit, when someone rolls low 2-3 turns in a row, they feel absolutely useless. 3.xe seemed to counteract this by the fact that misses to DC still do half damage and BAB was designed to give you a hit on your highest roll and you would get multiple attacks.

At second level in 3e, most of those really don't apply. That said, I would expect that with a solo at level + 2 hitting with your best attack on about a 10+ is about what you'd want. But I'd think that better encounter design would be a solo at level plus a few minions at level or a few regular monsters below level. That gives the few weaker combatant targets as well, plus giving burst and blast abilities a chance.