4e Combat Frustrating Instead of Fun?

[Agamon]

4e is a lot about tactics and less about builds. This is a plus to me, but maybe not so much for a tactically challenged group.

 

[Najo]

OP, here is my 2 cents.

The game is much more tactical then 3e and requires group cooperation in a different way. Flanking, aiding, supportive powers, using the environment all matter in 4e more than 3e.

As another poster said, solo monsters are meant to be rare. Most encounters should involve minions, standard monsters and an occasional elite. These fights become very cinematic, much more than 3e encounters.

Using your action points, encounter powers and daily powers at the right time is important to.

Finally, you can not go into a fight with an solo or an elite monster without perparing for it and expect to come out ok. These monsters are very powerful and designed to be party killers when the DM uses them effectively.
When prepared with the right magic items, rituals and a group with synergistic powers, a group can lay waste to most of the monsters they meet.

 

[Obryn]

Guys, I'm a 4e fan - but if it does turn out that a solo fight is a big, boring slugfest, it'll be a problem.

My gut feeling is that solo fights at low levels will be boring due to low numbers of Daily and Encounter powers; while at high levels, this problem could at least partly disappear.

I mean, if your level 1 characters blow their Encounter and Daily powers, but the bad guy still has 100+ hp left, you're stuck with At-Wills for the remainder of the fight.

-O

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

It seems to be mainly a problem of low-level characters vs solos. I think we'll have to wait a while to see if it's repeated at higher levels.

I'd certainly suggest asking your DM to throw a large group of weaker creatures your way - 4e works really well in that situation.

 

[ExploderWizard]

It seems to be mainly a problem of low-level characters vs solos. I think we'll have to wait a while to see if it's repeated at higher levels.

I'd certainly suggest asking your DM to throw a large group of weaker creatures your way - 4e works really well in that situation.

If solo encounters do not tend to play out as intended, then perhaps more extensive playtesting would have revealed this. Having to change challenges because the system handles one type great and another type poorly isn't really much of a fix.

 

[Shabe]

As have been said before, solo's may benefit from being the same level as the party with a few other creatures as well. Interesting terrain may be a good idea, perhaps boulders to push ontop of the monster, or icicles to topple on top of it, fires to push it into, that kind of thing. Possibly a one shot item if its a big bad guy they are preparing to fight, one perhaps that needs a quest to obtain, that lowers its defences for a while, -2 Defences Save Ends.

One things for sure a solo monster in a plain boring room on its own versus your party is not going to be particularly memorable, but if they are fighting in a room which is breaking apart under tectonic activity and spouts of lava are erupting out of the cracked floor then it's going to be a tad more exciting.

 

[Steely Dan]

I think 50% hit rate is pretty fair.

What's strange is I remember something about WotC modelling 4th Ed math on that test/experiment or what have you that showed that the human brain enjoys a 70% success rate in games.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

What's strange is I remember something about WotC modelling 4th Ed math on that test/experiment or what have you that showed that the human brain enjoys a 70% success rate in games.

The question is: is 50 % hit rate the success rate using no tactics, or is it already taking into account combat advantage and use of powers?

 

[AllisterH]

The question is: is 50 % hit rate the success rate using no tactics, or is it already taking into account combat advantage and use of powers?

The 70% success rate actually comes from videogame designers. IIRC, it's actually a range of 60-80% where the game is considered not too easy and not too hard.

Personally, I thought the 50% rate was assuming no party tactics. Seriously, if you add in flanking, combat advantage, dynamic bonuses, your hit rate will easily hit 75-80%.

One of the things the Blade Cascade explot thread showed was that pumping up the to hit number is not exactly hard.

re: Solo fights against PCs
The lowest level solo in the MM is the White Dragon with 200 HP. Against a 1st level party, this would be considered a challenging encounter