D&D 4E 4e Contest: Prove Nate Right - Power Attack Entry Finalists - You help decide winners

Which Entry fixes Power Attack best?

  • Entry A

    Votes: 72 48.3%
  • Entry B

    Votes: 21 14.1%
  • Entry C

    Votes: 19 12.8%
  • Entry D

    Votes: 37 24.8%

  • Poll closed .

Najo

First Post
Sorry this is a couple of weeks overdue. First, we wanted to let the frevor of D&D4e experience go by, then all of us were shocked with the news of Gary Gygax's passing. Rest in Peace Gary, and thank you for the gift you given all of us. Our entire industry likely wouldn't exist if it weren't for you.

Second, we have wanted to find a way to involve ENworld's communities in the selecting of the top 4 winners. We feel this is more fun. So here is how we are going to do it:

1. We have narrowed all of our entries down to the best we've recieved.
2. Those entries are listed here as entry A, B, C, and D. No names are attached to these entries.
3. Vote for the entry whose game effect you like the best. The member whose entry is listed can vote for their own entry.
4. No flaming, "pick me" or don't pick him" posts or other derrogatory statements. Feel free to discuss what you like or don't like with these feats, but remember these are real people's entries in to our contest. Please be respectful.

Any contestant who violates these rules is going to disqualified. So please have good sportsmanship and respect your other finalists.

During this time, the poll results are hidden until the poll ends on April 7th.

Once the poll is over, the results will be public and we will use them to help us determine the placement of these finalists. Ulimately, this means we have veto power in case anything fishy happens. Likely, we are going to let the results of the poll stand unless something obviously indicates we shouldn't.

I would also like to take this moment to thank everyone who entered. It was difficult narrowing down these top 4. We recieved alot of good and creative submissions but ultimately not all of them can win. These four were chosen on their simple approach, easy of use, consistancy with the D&D rules, presentation and solving the problems with Power Attack without creating any more.

Still, you all did a good job and for those not listed below we wish you better luck next time we do something like this :)

Just so everyone knows: The Prove Nate Wrong contest will post once the poll for Prove Nate Right is over.

On with the top 4 entries for Prove Nate Right/ Redesign the 3.5 Power Attack feat (Order here is in order we recieved them, and not any standing):


ENTRY A)
Power Attack
You can make exceptionally powerful melee attacks.
Prerequisite: Str 13+
Benefit: Whenever you would normally add one-and-a-half times your Strength modifier to your damage with a melee attack, you instead add twice your Strength modifier to your damage with that attack.
Normal: You add one-and-a-half times your Strength modifier as a bonus to melee damage when attacking with a two-handed weapon, a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, or certain natural weapon attacks.
Special: A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.


ENTRY B)
POWER ATTACK
Prerequisite: Str 13.
Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from your armor class and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty to Armor Class and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

Special: If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your armor class. You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty to armor class still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)


ENTRY C)
Power Attack
This mighty blow deals extra damage at the expense of opening up your defenses.
Requirements: Strength 13
Benefits: As a standard action, you may choose to make a single melee attack at your highest base attack bonus. Damage dealt with a one-handed weapon is increased by one and a half times your strength modifier, and damage dealt by a two-handed weapon is increased by twice your strength modifier. You have -2 AC until the start of your next turn. You cannot make a Power Attack with a weapon that uses your dexterity modifier on attack rolls.
Normal: Attacks with one-handed weapons add your strength modifier as damage, and attacks with two-handed weapons add one and a half times your strength modifier.


ENTRY D)
POWER ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Str 13.
Benefit: As a standard action, you may make a single attack. If this attack hits, it is considered a critical hit. This attack may also be part of a Charge. Afterwards, you are considered flat-footed until your next turn. Any additional attacks granted to you until your next turn (i.e. Cleave) are not considered Power Attacks.
Special: You can’t use Power Attack with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks).
A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.
 
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Najo said:
During this time, the poll results are hidden until the poll ends on April 7th.
I voted for one of the entrants, and now when I refresh the page I can see the poll results. Are you sure that they're "hidden"?
 

I'm curious as to whether unregistered votes will be counted or ignored. Since no mention ws made in he original post, I'm led to believe yes, but this opens up a loophole for fishy behavior to occur...
 

I didn't even vote, but by clicking "View Poll Results" the results appear.

Najo, you might want to double-check whatever is supposed to hide the poll.
 

I like Choice A a bunch but it only gives a benefit to weapons wielded two-handed. That means if you wield a one-handed weapon and a shield but want Cleave or Great Cleave you have to take a feat that you wouldn't use much. If Choice A bumped one-handed damage to 1-1/2 Str bonus would that be too good?
 

Wednesday Boy said:
I like Choice A a bunch but it only gives a benefit to weapons wielded two-handed. That means if you wield a one-handed weapon and a shield but want Cleave or Great Cleave you have to take a feat that you wouldn't use much. If Choice A bumped one-handed damage to 1-1/2 Str bonus would that be too good?

I think that might be a little too much; the feat's already better than Weapon Specialization (at least, if you have a strength modifier of 4+) with much lighter prerequisites.
 

I had problems with each of the options :(

For instance:
A is useless for non-2handers. This is mainly (as noted) a problem for people who want to cleave.
B is frankly just too powerful. Especially in the 'metagame' where monster attacks outstrip ACs of 2handed folks entirely, you quickly just welcome a maxed out penalty all the time. You can get this benefit with multiple feats (one a tactical) and only in some circumstances (on charges?) and it's still quite popular.
C Once you have multiple attacks, it's really lackluster (like Lunge). Also, it's unclear whether it's adding an additional half str, or a full out 1.5/2xstr. Ie, does a longsword add 2.5xstr, cause it normally adds 1xstr and this feat adds 1.5x str? I assume not, but...
D go go 1st level grim reaper instant kills - doesn't care about critical range or critical confirmation and is immensely too powerful. Cool idea, but really not developed all the way through.
 

C seems very weak. A standard action (1 attack) and AC penalty for that damage bonus?

D is ridiculous. The penalty and the bonus are extraordinarily variable. Flatfootedness is potentially costing the Power Attacker nothing if they lack dodge bonuses or have Uncanny Dodge. Dealing in damage multipliers is rather messy, and crits especially so - since the potential bonus varies from x2 to x4. Base weapon damage changes only slighly in response to changes in crit multiplier, so using this feat is massive boost to axes, scythes, etc over otherwise similar weapons. Moreover, using the feat is a standard action, but it can also be part of a charge for some reason? It seems like that particular exception is begging to be abused with other charge multipliers.

A probably provides too large a bonus for its cost/prereqs - it's not difficult for it to match exceed Weapon Specialization while being easier to get. It's also rather limited in terms of style - 1 handed style characters lack a means to similarly improve their damage. However, it's not without precedent (it functions like the Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow).

B allows for a problematic trade of defense for offense. The ability to use other means of defense besides AC (namely miss chance based effects like Displacement) can make the penalty rather unimportant. As can teamwork/tactics. If you have 2 characters/monsters with this feat attacking one foe, then chances are that the penalty only matters for one of the attackers. Plus there's disabling spells and the like. Plus there's the whole 'no defense against a dead enemy' thing. A Shock Trooper that readily applies to full attacks would vastly increase the tendency for fights between comparable to be decided in a single round.
 


I haven't voted yet - still mulling over the options.

But I objected to the terminology in one of them, and thought it needed an errata....

In option C, we have:

You cannot make a Power Attack with a weapon that uses your dexterity modifier on attack rolls.

Shouldn't that be written as "You cannot make a Power Attack if your attack uses your dexterity modifier", since if I use Weapon Finesse with a light weapon, it is the attack, not the weapon that uses my dexterity modifier. The weapon is not 'using' anything in the attack, it is being used.

ALSO: Option D does not restrict its use to melee weapons. I presume it is supposed to? Or can I use it to attack with throwing axes? Or even arrows?

Just asking......

Carl
 

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