D&D 5E 4E Cosmology

[TwoSix]

I think the issue is that, at one point in the FR timeline - as chronicled in some 4e books - Abeir and Toril occupied the same space.

I'm not a FR lore guy, but IIRC, "Abeir-Toril" was the name of the world generally prior to 4e. The 4e FRCS introduced the idea of Abeir and Toril as co-extant worlds, separated from each other during the world's origins.

I don't think any of the books ever clarified exactly how that separation "worked", from a cosmological perspective. The vibe was definitely more of a "Fringe" like parallel dimension than "Oh, it's just in the Ethereal or Astral somewhere".

 

[Starfox]

The only thing I don’t like about 4E is the cosmology. Though I get why it exists the way it does.

Not arguing against you, just noting that I have the opposite taste, (almost) the only thing I do like about 4E is the cosmology. And this is ok - no-one can tell you what your taste should be like.

 

[Starfox]

I believe there is possibly a true nature of the cosmos (D&D Reality), but we are not fully capable of describing / understanding it.

I agree with almost all you say in this port. But I want to expand on one thing.

My version of the Astral Plane/Sea is a realm of thoughts and idea. Travel in the Astral is a matter of thought - and your thoughts are based on the mental model you are using. So if your model of the outer planes is the Great Wheel, this is how you will perceive and travel among astral realms. This verifies your mental model of the Astral. If you have some other system guiding your thoughts, this system will guide your thoughts, and thus your perception and mode of travel. This is due to the Astral's nature as a place of though rather than matter.

It is possible to have a more correct view of the Astral that incorporates this knowledge, now the Astral will seem to be a kaleidoscopic, changing in appearance as you try to fit it to first one model, then the next.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well, the idea was that this ship wasn't intended to be cast back into the past. That was an accident. Perhaps a malfunctioning star drive, perhaps sabotage that went weirder than the saboteurs expected, perhaps a side-effect of fleeing from whatever catastrophe ended the empire, whatever one likes. Maybe the people on the ship don't even know what happened, and only discover just how isolated they are much later!

3.5 plot line btw. Illithids did that.

 

[Zardnaar]

Not arguing against you, just noting that I have the opposite taste, (almost) the only thing I do like about 4E is the cosmology. And this is ok - no-one can tell you what your taste should be like.

4E cosmology is fine. It works.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

3.5 plot line btw. Illithids did that.

I thought that was specific to just one particular adventure and not a generic thing? I'd never heard of it again outside of that one singular context. Unless your point was simply to note that this isn't 100% perfectly original, in which case...yes? Of course? Absolute originality is overrated and frequently impossible.

 

[Zardnaar]

I thought that was specific to just one particular adventure and not a generic thing? I'd never heard of it again outside of that one singular context. Unless your point was simply to note that this isn't 100% perfectly original, in which case...yes? Of course? Absolute originality is overrated and frequently impossible.

It was Book of Aberrations and I think it was mentioned in Volos or Mordenkainens 5E.

 

[SkidAce]

Not sure of source, and not enough time to look through mountain of dnd books, but mind flayers escaping extinction in the future by returning to the past has been around a while.

I "think" its also a bit of lore that they created the gith in the past that end up rebelling in the future, creating a loop.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Not sure of source, and not enough time to look through mountain of dnd books, but mind flayers escaping extinction in the future by returning to the past has been around a while.

I "think" its also a bit of lore that they created the gith in the past that end up rebelling in the future, creating a loop.

Riffed on in one of the best threads ever posted on this-here message board. (direct link to the Money Post (IMO))

Post in thread 'Inspired by Lords of Madness (Updated with 65% more ideas, and 74% more confusion)!'

Apr 16, 2005

Okay. I've read further, and I've got more.

It says that the illithid came back from the end of the time, not actually because the world was ending, but because they were being defeated by an unknown enemy. Those who returned manipulate kingdoms to study the rise and fall of empires, so they can be certain that this time, when they (re)create their own empire, they can build it stronger. It'll be done "right," it'll be permanent.

And that, of course, has sparked new theories in my twisted brain, as well as tying into my old. Follow me, if you will.

The aboleth are one of the most...

• Mouseferatu

• 

 

[SkidAce]

Riffed on in one of the best threads ever posted on this-here message board. (direct link to the Money Post (IMO))

Post in thread 'Inspired by Lords of Madness (Updated with 65% more ideas, and 74% more confusion)!'

Apr 16, 2005

Okay. I've read further, and I've got more.

It says that the illithid came back from the end of the time, not actually because the world was ending, but because they were being defeated by an unknown enemy. Those who returned manipulate kingdoms to study the rise and fall of empires, so they can be certain that this time, when they (re)create their own empire, they can build it stronger. It'll be done "right," it'll be permanent.

And that, of course, has sparked new theories in my twisted brain, as well as tying into my old. Follow me, if you will.

The aboleth are one of the most...

• Mouseferatu

• 

Ahhh @Mouseferatu ...excellent poster.