D&D 5E 4E Cosmology

[Hexmage-EN]

Heh, maybe Toril is in the Great Wheel cosmology and Abeir is in the World Axis cosmology.

 

[TwoSix]

Heh, maybe Toril is in the Great Wheel cosmology and Abeir is in the World Axis cosmology.

"Hello. I'm Leonard Nimoy. The following tale of alien encounters is true. And by true, I mean false. It's all lies. But they're entertaining lies. And in the end, isn't that the real truth? The answer is: No."

 

[Chaltab]

Maybe it's like the DC Multiverse. Abeir and Toril occupy the same space but vibrate at different cosmic frequencies.

Alternatively... parts of the D&D multiverse are said to have existed for millions of years. Vecna is said to have been around for over 100,000. But Toril's history only goes back about 31,000 years.

What if Abeir and Toril weren't separated dimensionally but through time. Abeir exists in the distant past while Toril was shunted into the future until 31KYA.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Maybe it's like the DC Multiverse. Abeir and Toril occupy the same space but vibrate at different cosmic frequencies.

Alternatively... parts of the D&D multiverse are said to have existed for millions of years. Vecna is said to have been around for over 100,000. But Toril's history only goes back about 31,000 years.

What if Abeir and Toril weren't separated dimensionally but through time. Abeir exists in the distant past while Toril was shunted into the future until 31KYA.

Don't both WA and GW explain this as 'distant galaxies' essentially? Somewhere far across the expanse of the Astral exist entirely independent collections of planes, alternate primes, etc. I'm pretty sure that's the old TSR stock answer. Portals might rarely exist, or you could simply set off across astral space, hoping to encounter someplace else (the physiological time dilation of the astral in AD&D presumably helps you here). I don't know if 5e bothers with this lore. I'm pretty sure it got at least a nod in WA someplace.

 

[pemerton]

Don't both WA and GW explain this as 'distant galaxies' essentially? Somewhere far across the expanse of the Astral exist entirely independent collections of planes, alternate primes, etc. I'm pretty sure that's the old TSR stock answer. Portals might rarely exist, or you could simply set off across astral space, hoping to encounter someplace else (the physiological time dilation of the astral in AD&D presumably helps you here). I don't know if 5e bothers with this lore. I'm pretty sure it got at least a nod in WA someplace.

I think the issue is that, at one point in the FR timeline - as chronicled in some 4e books - Abeir and Toril occupied the same space.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I think the issue is that, at one point in the FR timeline - as chronicled in some 4e books - Abeir and Toril occupied the same space.

Literally yes. It was part of the Spellplague powered realms shaking event. I kinda want to grab my FRPG / FRCS and see what they say. Might do that tomorrow.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Maybe it's like the DC Multiverse. Abeir and Toril occupy the same space but vibrate at different cosmic frequencies.

Alternatively... parts of the D&D multiverse are said to have existed for millions of years. Vecna is said to have been around for over 100,000. But Toril's history only goes back about 31,000 years.

What if Abeir and Toril weren't separated dimensionally but through time. Abeir exists in the distant past while Toril was shunted into the future until 31KYA.

Certainly interesting ideas.

I do know that one notion I've had for how to incorporate dragonborn into Greyhawk, which certainly didn't have them prior to 4e (or their weird not-quite-the-same first appearance in late 3e), is that they're a species from the distant future, accidentally sent back in time. The TL;DR is "like the Barrier Peaks, but it's a colony ship, not a generic space vessel." So the vast majority of the dragonborn population are actually still in cryogenic suspension, and they expand extremely slowly because they don't have ANY industrial base to sustain the kind of lifestyle they're expecting--building an entire future-tech society from medieval-era resources and "industry" is extremely difficult.

That's why they heal faster (or at least why they did heal faster in 4e), they have better health, stronger immune systems, vaccines, etc. Their weapons are extremely powerful (e.g. blaster rifles), but too valuable to deploy willy-nilly (limited power/ammo reserves), so they can't afford to wage war. Being a colony ship literally sent out to save enough of Arkhosia to let it rise again, the people aboard were selected for their ability to engage with others, to form alliances and above all to remember what Arkhosia was so that its spirit will never truly die. The ship has supplies and such, but some have been damaged or scattered or looted, so they have to be careful.

By these lights, "Arkhosia" isn't an ancient kingdom that fell long ago and the dragonborn are its lost sons and daughters; instead, "Arkhosia" is a far future kingdom amongst the stars that fell to great treachery. This lone ship somehow escaped that conflagration, but was hurtled through time into the distant past. Perhaps it's one of those predestination paradoxes: these "children" of Arkhosia will go on to become its founders. Or maybe not! Who knows.

I just thought that was a cool way to integrate dragonborn into the setting without needing to project too much disruptive change into it. The Barrier Peaks already proves that future-tech societies exist and can crash-land on Greyhawk. This just builds on that premise.

 

[Chaltab]

That's an interesting take on integrating the Dragonborn into Greyhawk. I hadn't really thought of tying it to Arkhosia since that was always a Nentir Vale thing and I feel like if either of its great empires colonized other worlds (or eras) it would be the devil-fueled Bael Turath.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I feel like if either of its great empires colonized other worlds (or eras) it would be the devil-fueled Bael Turath.

Why not both? (!)

The Arkhosian Dragonborn send themselves back in time partially as an escape valve for the war with Bael Turath. If the worst happens to Arkhosia, well, at least their descendants in the past will survive.

The Turathi find out about it and build (or steal!) the time travel tech, so they send their own ship back in time. Can’t let the pesky Dragonborn colonize the past unopposed.

Given the vagaries of spacetime travel, the Bael Turath ship arrives displaced in both time and location from the Arkhosia ship.

That’s why you find tieflings in (location BT) and Dragonborn in (location A) in Greyhawk.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

That's an interesting take on integrating the Dragonborn into Greyhawk. I hadn't really thought of tying it to Arkhosia since that was always a Nentir Vale thing and I feel like if either of its great empires colonized other worlds (or eras) it would be the devil-fueled Bael Turath.

Well, the idea was that this ship wasn't intended to be cast back into the past. That was an accident. Perhaps a malfunctioning star drive, perhaps sabotage that went weirder than the saboteurs expected, perhaps a side-effect of fleeing from whatever catastrophe ended the empire, whatever one likes. Maybe the people on the ship don't even know what happened, and only discover just how isolated they are much later!