4E debut angst - more so than 3E?

[Mercurius]

This is NOT meant to inspire another battle in the "Editions War", so if you are into that please refrain per the Mod Squad.

So the question: Did the last "turn of the edition" (2E to 3E) inspire so much angst? From "my books falling apart" to "Amazon screwed me" to "This isn't the D&D I grew up with" to just plain old "4E sucks"--it just seems like there is more upheaval surround this new edition than 3E.

Now I remember that many folks were none-too-happy about 3.5E, but that seemed more financially oriented: People felt jipped that Wizards was bringing out a new half-edition just three years later. But now it seems much stronger, more multi-faceted.

(And for those that can remember 1e-to-2e, was there any angst? I don't remember much, although that was before the Bitchernet ).

 

[Aldarc]

Somewhat. 4E brought about many welcomed and well-received innovative changes, but it also killed or significantly altered many of the sacred cows from past editions.

 

[Mercurius]

I think Negflar2099 partially answers my question here , when s/he wrote:

This is clearly a situation where the fans are so divided nothing can really appease them. If Wizards had come out with 3.75 as some suggest it would have been met with just as much anger as 4e's arrival. Had they called it 4e but not changed all that much people would be just as angry. Wizards could have continued to produce 3.x books but only for so long, maybe a year more tops, before they've ran out of ideas for sourcebooks people would buy.

 

[teitan]

It seems similar to me to when 2e came out. 2e was a success but not as successful as 1e ever was and I think we will see the same thing with 4e where it is a slow success and eventually most people will convert to 4e except maybe in strongly established groups or more rural groups like the 1e to 2e transition.

 

[Skywalker]

So the question: Did the last "turn of the edition" (2E to 3E) inspire so much angst? From "my books falling apart" to "Amazon screwed me" to "This isn't the D&D I grew up with" to just plain old "4E sucks"--it just seems like there is more upheaval surround this new edition than 3E.

Now I remember that many folks were none-too-happy about 3.5E, but that seemed more financially oriented: People felt jipped that Wizards was bringing out a new half-edition just three years later. But now it seems much stronger, more multi-faceted.

(And for those that can remember 1e-to-2e, was there any angst? I don't remember much, although that was before the Bitchernet ).

No. There was at least this must angst if not more than when 3e came out.

There is a whole thread on RPGnet asking this same question, which many say the same thing. There were calls that it was far too tactical, too much like Magic, not really D&D, too much like MMORPG.

FWIW IMO 3e did a lot more to change D&D than 4e has by quite a way.

Oh and 2e also created at least this much angst too.

 

[Ctenosaur]

I seem to remember 2E being moribund when 3E was released and everyone eager for something new just cautious that 3E wouldn't be Dungeons and Dragons.
With 4E, 3.5 was actively played and supported and there was no need among the players for a new edition.

 

[Zil]

I remember a fair bit of cynicism around the conversion from 1E to 2E - and quite a few groups were very slow in converting. Our group was one of those. We had the 2E books, but it was so similar to 1E that we kept playing 1E for a long time. Eventually we moved to a hybrid 1E/2E game and converted fully around '94. Our reason for not switching was more a case of inertia - we stayed what we were used to.

With the shift from 2E to 3E, I again remember some level of cynicism and worries, but once the rules were out, that seemed to mostly evaporate. We switched to 3E within a month or 2 of its release and didn't switch back. 3E felt like such a vast improvement on the game.

With 3.5, there was a high level of cynicism over it being a financially driven decision as the OP suggests. However, we switched immediately to 3.5. It wasn't really an issue for our group.

Now along comes 4 and there's again some level of cynicism, but for the most part the complaints this time are more on the actual changes to the game. There seems to be a lot more resistance to this particular shift than in any previous edition change that I can remember. Looking at our group, just about all of our group is pretty strongly negative on 4E, something that certainly couldn't be said for how people felt about previous versions. Even though we took so long to fully change over to 2E from 1E, no one really had any strong opinions about it at the time. That certainly can't be said for 4E.

 

[Campbell]

It's honestly hard for me to say. It seems more contested here than I remember Eric Noah's site being, but that community was largely made up of enthusiasts. I do remember the dragonsfoot forum invasions though.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

I made the shift to 2E with my group and hardly remember it being a switch. Seemed the same game, only different art on the cover and blue text in the books.

I was very excited about 2E -> 3E because I was not really gaming at that time and thought the changes, while significant, just looked "cool". I wanted something new and was happy to give it a whirl.

Same mood/thoughts for 3E -> 4E, to be quite honest with you. Except for the gaming part. We played 3E right up to the end, which is a testament to goodness of that ruleset.

As for the boards...yeah, I think it was the same. Hell, back in the 1E -> 2E when "the boards" didn't exist, I still remember people at the local comic book store arguing over what to do and throwing around the T$R stuff.

It's change. People don't like change. It's human nature.

We'll see the same with 4E -> 5E. And 6E -> 7E. Blah blah bah.

Don't let anyone fool you that the negativity is any better or worse than it was with those other editions changes. People just seem to think their opinion matters more now that they have the internet to facilitate whining and babbling. Yours truly is not immune to this egotism, mind you.

Wis

 

[humble minion]

I can't really comment on the 2e->3e online angst, since I wasn't really around for most of it.

But every member of my current group had stopped playing D&D completely by the time 3e came out, and every member was brought back to the game by 3e. 3e was the welcome, exciting thing that brought us back to the hobby.

4e has us all underwhelmed. The casual players don't want to spend the changeover money, the purist (after a trial run at game day) complains it doesn't 'feel' like D&D should, the worldbuilder (me) has major verimisiltude issues, and the grim and gritty fan is sick of D&D/d20 as a whole and wants to try a more classless system. None of us are rabidly against it (though I'm mildly concerned it's going to shove the hobby as a whole in a direction that I find less fun) but we all have reasons for not being enthusiastic about the whole thing. If 4e had come out when 3e did this might have been different, but right now 4e isn't what any of us are looking for.

We're going to finish the Savage Tide in 3.5 (I'm GMing, and damned if I'm doing a conversion) and then probably give WHRP a go, since grim and gritty guy will be GMing next, and so that makes it his call.