D&D 4E 4E Essentials Modern

[AbdulAlhazred]

Actually I am not having too much trouble with 20 levels, only because it is pretty easy to find powers from different existing sources to crib things from. But it would be easy enough to just use 10 levels with the format I am trying. I like the idea about the slower level progression too. I think its more a matter of cutting down to the essential careers for now to see if it even works.
The non-combat classes are slowly coming together. I see them as more impairing enemies or boosting allies in combat than anything else. They will have lower damage output, but still serve a valuable function. I agree about the Essentials style Martial characters too. I like that they eliminated Daily powers for them, because it never made much sense to me that a fighter or a rogue could only do a certain strike once per day. In a modern campaign I only see at-wills and encounters as being good options. And I think it will have aspects of cinematic just because of how 4th is structured.

Well, for me I'm not wedded to AEDU. OTOH I see daily and even encounter powers as 'plot coupons', not so much as 'you can physically only do this once a day'. The thing about modern and powers in general is just that 4e pretty much defines powers as combat resources. It is true that a decent number of them can have other uses, but primarily they've traditionally been attack powers or something similar. With non-combatant type classes that seems kind of odd. I mean sure, anyone could easily be able to pick up some combat useful powers and depending on the setting you could have various possibilities like 'Computer Hacker' being able to disable enemy equipment or say robots or whatever that could certainly be a combat power. OTOH an 'Investigator' with a roster of 6 combat powers and a couple utilities seems somewhat odd.

I'm almost thinking that in the case of some of these classes they should be packing mostly utility type powers. So maybe some way for them to get those instead? Or for a non-combat class they just don't have (many) combat powers at all and instead get class features. That was where my thinking on 'Essentials style' came into it since in fact most E-classes do tend to work that way.

Of course if this is going to be an extremely common thing, then maybe just having a bit more generalized power system would be the best idea. Maybe a different power progression and not really distinguish between utility and attack. I know that distinction was meant to put the two types into different 'bins', but for a character that effectively isn't going to be focused on combat I think that distinction isn't so meaningful. They can have just 'powers' and while they might swap a few out to get some better combat capability they would be pretty much using them like utilities and relying on at-wills or BAs when they need to fight.

How about handling weapons? I was thinking about how best to handle them without having to structure powers around specific weapons. Maybe keywords that allow you to do special effects with the weapon type. Maybe have automatic weapons have the ability to do some additional damage if you expend more ammo? And how about damage ranges?

Well, yeah, there could be weapon keywords like 'automatic','firearm', etc. Not sure of the exact specifics, but something like that should work. So some powers could have requirements for specific types, or kickers for some types, etc. Extra damage with more ammo expenditure would probably work fine. You could have other possibilities like the 'covering fire' power that suppresses enemies. Maybe also some sort of easily packaged way for a character to cover an area. You can use Readying to do that, but perhaps there's a more elegant mechanism.

I think lethality of weapons is mostly going to be genre dependent. In a general action genre maybe just making them around as deadly as 4e bows/crossbows are now would be OK. Hitting someone with auto-fire might well be somewhat more damaging than single-shot, but it doesn't have to be much different.

 

[dirklancer]

Maybe that is where my snag is in developing the powers. Maybe I need to stop thinking of them in the standard way for the non-combat classes and start giving them more in line of Utility powers. Going a previous suggestion from DeadSmurf I think, I am following more of the format of Gamma World in basic structure, and that uses the power categories of Novice, Utility, and Expert. Maybe instead of looking for something with combat application for the Novice and Expert levels I need to be looking at more Utility options for the non-combat classes. Like the Techie and the Scientist, which have been giving me a headache so far because I was trying to think of some combat powers for them. Maybe that is not where the focus should be, unless there are some suggestions.
How about giving weapons things like a burst trait that does extra damage and an auto trait that does splash damage on adjacent foes?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Maybe that is where my snag is in developing the powers. Maybe I need to stop thinking of them in the standard way for the non-combat classes and start giving them more in line of Utility powers. Going a previous suggestion from DeadSmurf I think, I am following more of the format of Gamma World in basic structure, and that uses the power categories of Novice, Utility, and Expert. Maybe instead of looking for something with combat application for the Novice and Expert levels I need to be looking at more Utility options for the non-combat classes. Like the Techie and the Scientist, which have been giving me a headache so far because I was trying to think of some combat powers for them. Maybe that is not where the focus should be, unless there are some suggestions.
How about giving weapons things like a burst trait that does extra damage and an auto trait that does splash damage on adjacent foes?

Yeah, I haven't had a chance to pick up GW yet, so I'm a bit gimped as far as using it for suggestions. I think it is possible any character could have SOME interesting combat tricks. OTOH maybe something like they all get some kind of novice combat power, plus their BAs of course. Then there can be one or two others that they could get if they really want.

Of course there can be some genre where there are alternative forms of 'combat', like 'decking' or something like that. A certain type of character could be quite good at that sort of thing. It might even tie into actual combat in some situations.

 

[dirklancer]

Right. But those alternate forms are for the phantom Splatbooks of this project... :^)
I actually had some more ideas today for some non-combat powers. I have this running list of ideas and suggestions from everyone and things that pop out of my own brain. When I get things a bit more cohesive, then I will post it on here for thoughts and opinions. Like I had a weird combat power idea today for the Scientist called "Technobabble," which boils down to stunning a foe by overwhelming him with overly complicated theorems. Silly, but that's what my brain produces sometimes.

 

[dirklancer]

Ok, here is the first thing from what I have been working on. This is the first draft of the advancement table for characters. I have an explanation for all the listed abilities and options.
Basically each Core class determines things like your starting HP, number of healing surges, bonuses to skills and defenses, and a special ability. Each core class also has 2 each of Novice, Utility, and Expert powers.
Each Career path determines number and list of trained skills, a defense bonus that stacks with the Core, a special ability, and what the character does on a critical hit. Each career path also has 4 each of Novice, Utility, and Expert powers.
If you advance in the same Core and Career paths, by level 20 you will have strong special abilities, nearly all the Novice powers, and all the Utility and Expert available. If you change paths, you will have more options available, but some will be at a lower power than a dedicated character. Kind of my attempt at old-school multi-classing in 4E.
I loosly based it on the format that was used for Gamma World, so for anyone unfamiliar the power categories for Novice and Expert basically correspond to At-Wills and Encounter powers. I am also using the format for that game of less available powers, but I think the option to change career and core paths means there is a lot of room for customization. Please let me know what you think, changes that I need to make, etc. If anyone likes this idea, let me know too and I will post some of the Core and Career paths as I finish them for opinions.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I don't have a huge amount of comment. It looks fairly straightforward. I'm sure we'll all have more to say about specific stuff. It is hard to tell exactly what the advancement will feel like by itself. Maybe a list of the classes you're considering and a few ideas about possible powers. I like the technobabble power BTW. Should work well in a lot of settings, hehe.

 

[dirklancer]

Here are my notes on the Core classes, incomplete but maybe it will give you an idea where I am going and what I should change or modify. The vague power descriptions in order of Basic, Utility, and Expert.

CORE

STRONG
Key Attribute: Strength
Hit Points: 15 + Constitution at 1st level, 6 at each additional level
Healing Surges: 8 + Constitution Modifier
Skill Bonus: +2 to Athletics, +4 at second Core Path
Defense Bonus: +1 to Fortitude
Special Ability: Indomitable: Any forced movement is reduced by 1 square, to a minimum of 0. Improved: Forced movement is reduced by 2 squares.

Powers
Brutal Strike increased damage
Forceful Strike push

Adrenaline Surge bonus to strength related task or damage
Don't Make Me Mad after hit by attack, gain bonus to next attack and damage against target

Massive Smash high damage melee attack
Hurl Foe moderate damage and target pushed and knocked prone


FAST
Key Attribute: Dexterity
Hit Points: 12 + Constitution at 1st level, 5 at each additional level
Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution Modifier
Skill Bonus: +2 to Acrobatics, Stealth, or Thievery, +4 to chosen skill at Core Path or +2 to other skill
Defense Bonus: +1 to Reflexes
Special Ability: Nimble: +2 to AC if wearing no armor and unencumbered. This bonus is negated if the character is surprised or if unable to move due to a condition. Improved: +4 to AC if wearing no armor.

Powers
Quick Strike Dex damage, minor action
Dashing Strike shift 2 before or after attack

Speed Burst speed is increased by 4 until end of next turn
Unhindered Movement ignore difficult terrain

Move-by Strike moderate damage, move before and after attack
Rapid Strike multiple weaker strikes

TOUGH
Key Attribute: Constitution
Hit Points: 15 + Constitution at 1st level, 6 at each additional level
Healing Surges: 9 + Constitution Modifier
Skill Bonus: +2 to Endurance, +4 at Core Path
Defense Bonus:
Special Ability: use Second Wind as minor action, Improved: may spend 2 healing surges with Second Wind

Powers
Defensive Strike damage and bonus to one defense
Forceful Charge Con damage and target pushed and knocked prone

Hard to Kill: Gain back HP when reduced to 0
Tough as Nails: Immediate Interrupt that grants resist 10 against attack

Back Off! close burst and targets are pushed 1 square
Ready for You damage and gain resist against foe's next attack

SMART
Key Attribute: Intelligence
Hit Points: 10 + Constitution at 1st level, 4 at each additional level
Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution Modifier
Skill Bonus: +2 to Conspiracy, History, Mechanics or Science, +4 to chosen skill at Core Path or +2 to other skill
Defense Bonus: +1 to Reflexes
Special Ability: Savant: Pick one Intelligence skill. The difficulty for skill checks using this skill are reduced by one difficulty class (i.e. Hard to Moderate) and Easy skill checks automatically succeed with this skill. Improved: Pick a second Intelligence skill.

Powers
Clever Maneuvering move foe to get them right where you want them
Anticipate Attack read foe to get bonus to defenses against them

Flash of Insight skill bonus
Up to the Challenge when involved with a skill challenge, next successful skill use counts as 2 successes

Smart Strategy enemies in burst have lowered defenses
Right Where I Want You targets grant combat advantage

DEDICATED
Key Attribute: Wisdom
Hit Points: 12 + Constitution at 1st level, 5 at each additional level
Healing Surges: 7 + Constitution Modifier
Skill Bonus: +2 to Heal, Insight, or Perception, +4 to chosen skill at Core Path or +2 to other skill
Defense Bonus: +1 to Will
Special Ability: Supreme Resolve: +2 to one save per Encounter, Improved: may use this ability twice per encounter.

Powers
Bolstering Strike attack and you or ally gains temporary hit points equal to Wisdom
Guiding Strike attack and ally gains bonus to hit foe

Moral Encouragement ally gains bonus to skill check
Strengthening Sacrifice spend a healing surge so an ally can heal

Pacifying Presence creates zone where no one can attack
Inspiring Attack moderate damage and allies can spend a healing surge

CHARISMATIC
Key Attribute: Charisma
Hit Points: 10 + Constitution at 1st level, 4 at each additional level
Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution Modifier
Skill Bonus: +2 to Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidation, +4 to chosen skill at Core Path or +2 to other skill
Defense Bonus: +1 to Will
Special Ability: Free Spirit: Once per encounter when targeted by a Will-based attack, the character can force the enemy to reroll the attack. Improved: may use this ability twice per encounter.

Powers
Subtle Manipulation Cha psychic damage and slide target 2 squares
Quick Trick throws foe off balance and penalty to attack and defense

Natural Charm bonus to interaction skill use
Got your Back if ally fails an interaction check, you can immediately make an interaction check

Crowd Control close blast, targets dazed (save ends)
Confusing Trick target is disoriented and attacks impaired

 

[dirklancer]

And here are some notes for the careers, also vague and unfinished.


MARTIAL ARTIST
Key Attribute: Strength
Trained Skills:
Defense Bonus: +1 to Reflexes
Special Ability: Ki Strike: +1d10 damage on one attack once per encounter. Improved: one additional time per encounter each additional time this career is chosen (up to 3/encounter maximum)
Critical: Nerve Strike Critical: +1d10 damage and target is slowed (save ends), Improved: +1d10 damage each time career is chosen

Powers
Roundhouse Strike close burst 1
Focused Strike increased damage
Hampering Strike damage and slow target
Shoulder Throw damage, target pushed 1 and knocked prone

Deep Meditation bonuses to healing during short rest
Wire Fu gain phenomenal leaping and movement abilities
Fighter's Soul gain temporary bonuses to melee
One at a Time creates a zone where only one enemy in zone can attack you at a time

One Inch Punch attack with reach
Dim Mak ongoing damage

WEAPON MASTER
Key Attribute: Strength
Trained Skills:
Defense Bonus: +1 to Fortitude
Special Ability: Melee Mastery: +2 damage to all melee weapon attacks, Improved: +2 to damage for each additional time this career is chosen (up to +6 maximum)
Critical:

Powers
Double Strike 2 attacks
Cleaving Strike damage and adjacent enemy takes Strength damage
Shifting Strike damage and shift enemy and shift into enemy's square
Binding Strike damage and target is unable to attack

Weapon Display allows intimidation in close burst
Iaido bonus to initiative on first round and can do free basic attack if first

Master's Strike extra damage
Bleeding Strike ongoing damage
Whirlwind of Death close burst


SOLDIER
Key Attribute: Strength
Trained Skills:
Defense Bonus: +1 to Fortitude
Special Ability: Brother-in-Arms: as a minor action you may mark one enemy within your line of sight. That enemy remains marked until reduced to 0 HP or you use this ability again. If a marked enemy attacks a target other than you, you may make a basic attack against them as a free action. Improved: Mark one additional enemy as a separate minor action each time this career is chosen (up to 3 enemies).
Critical:

Powers
Strafe attack against multiple targets
Sniper Shot bonus to hit
Cover Fire minor damage and reduces target's ability to attack
Double-Tap increased damage to one target

No Man Behind adjacent ally is reduced to 0, move with ally and ally can spend healing surge
Dig In increased defense from cover or being prone
Rally Point zone where allies get bonuses to attack and temporary hit points

Frontal Assault high damage attack
Enfilade create wall of fire
Death Blossom close burst of fire
Full Auto burst attack at range

GUNSLINGER
Key Attribute: Dexterity
Trained Skills: Any three of the following:
Defense Bonus: +1 to Reflexes
Special Ability: Precision Shooting: +1d8 damage on one successful attack against a creature once per encounter. Improved: one additional time per encounter each additional time this career is chosen (up to 3/encounter maximum)
Critical: On Target Critical: +1d10 damage and target is dazed (save ends). Improved: +1d10 damage each time career is chosen

Powers
Double Shot 2 attacks
Rapid Fire burst 1
Disarming Shot Dexterity damage and prevents target from attacking
Sharpshooter bonus to hit

Take Cover treat cover and concealment as total
Serpentine shift half move and +2 to defenses until start of next turn
Rapid Reload reload as free action
Trick Shot bonus to skill check

Hail of Bullets burst
Dance of Death three attacks, shift between shots
Right Between the Eyes high damage to single target
Gut Shot moderate damage and ongoing damage

TECHIE
Key Attribute: Intelligence
Trained Skills:
Defense Bonus: +1 to Reflexes
Special Ability:
Critical:

Powers
Factory Flaw impair target's combat ability
Quick Tweak attack with mild boost

Direct Interface bonus to mechanical skill
Void the Warranty alter equipment to provide bonus for encounter

Overload normal tech becomes dangerous

CON ARTIST
Key Attribute: Charisma
Trained Skills:
Defense Bonus: +1 to Will
Special Ability: Can't Trick the Trickster: Immediate Interupt when targeted by Will attack, +2 to Will defense 1/encounter. Improved: +2 to Will defense for each time career is chosen (up to +6 maximum)
Critical: Tricky Critical: Target makes a basic attack against an enemy. Improved: Target's attack does +1d10 damage for each time career is chosen

Powers
He Did It target makes basic attack against an ally
Aggravating Taunt minor damage and target can only use at-wills for short time
Misdirecting Strike minor damage and penalty to attack rolls
False Friend target can not make attacks against yourself or ally until start of next turn

Wear Them Down lowers Will defense
Web of Lies fail a interaction check, get a bonus to next attempt
Change Your Story reroll one interaction check
Distracting Presence ally gains combat advantage

Into the Fire slide target and enemies and allies within range make basic attacks against target
Mass Manipulation ranged burst, targets dominated
Undermine Confidence target can not make attacks (save ends), afteraffect: Target weakened (save ends)
More Valuable Alive targets are weakened and enemy attacks can't reduce targets below 1 HP (save ends)


PERSONALITY
Key Attribute: Charisma
Trained Skills:
Defense Bonus: +1 to Will
Special Ability: Fame: Cha check to improve attitude in interaction
Critical:

Powers
Look at Me Cha damage and target focuses attention on you, grants combat advantage to allies
Dazzling Performance target is dazed

Method Acting able to disguise without preparation
Call in a Favor minor favor or bonus to skill check
Play the Role treated as trained in untrained skill

Biggest Fan target is dominated, target makes basic attack against anyone that attacks character
Work the Crowd close blast group is stunned and immobilized

 

[dirklancer]

Here is an example of how I am trying to do the Core classes, which are the ones based on a specific attribute. Here is the Strong hero.

 

[dirklancer]

Not sure if anyone is still reading this, but another example just in case. Here is the Strong Core class and the Soldier career.