D&D 4E 4E in 2008? Fact or Fiction?

[Belen]

The d20 system publishers are tied to Wizards in other ways as well:

Many are run by friends and ex-workmates of those at Wizards.

They're also a great place to find the next good designers.

Cheers!

Yes, Merric, but the ties they have to Wizards are different than the ties they have to Hasbro, which laid them off.

 

[Kanegrundar]

RPGA use and regular group use are two totally different things. The RPGA makes up a pretty small percentage of the overall D&D playerbase. I can't speak for the whole (or even a whole percentage point) of the D&D player base, but adding in the collectible card option to D&D would drive me away from any future releases quicker than D&D becoming a completely classless/point buy/skill-based system.

Kane

 

[Henry]

The one thing that really scares me is the thought that when 4e does come out (whenever that might be), that Hasbro will want to find some way to shut down and prevent folks from using the SRD and OGL.

Now before you get up in arms and say "they can't do that", there are a couple of things to consider. First off, the OGL has never been tested in court, and while it may prevail there, what company has the money for a prolonged lawsuit over it if Hasbro pursues that course?

This is possible, but the reason I see it as unlikely is that their company is the one who drafted and okayed the license. As soon as it becomes established in the pre-trial hearing that the terms of the license were being followed, it would likely be dismissed outright (barring unforseen things like judge bribery, etc.) The lawsuit only becomes prolonged if there was a trial.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

First, this is just speculation. I'm in the "fiction" category of this rumor. I first saw 4e threads in 2002 and I've seen them every year thereafter. Eventually the rumormongers will be right, but it'll be a long time for that.

Second, I'm betting this thread makes it out to seven pages.

Third .... I may as well have a little fun here so:

1) I'd like to see a simplified version of D&D that is able to run on top of the "advanced" ruleset. So you'd have a game without rangers, paladins, bards, druids, wizards, gnomes, half-orcs, halflings, half-elves, most of the monsters, 50% of the spells, feats, and skills, and a LOT fewer combat options. There will be four or five templates given from 1-20 that dictate how the character levels up so newbies won't be overwhelmed with decisions. What sort of idiots (aside from ourselves) buy games with 800 pages of basic rules?

2) For the "advanced" rules I'd like to see most of the class abilities go. Instead, every couple of levels you could pick from a list of class abilities. So no 4th level ranger would be exctly alike.

3) Drop the frigging Greyhawk references. Clerics choose two domains. Period. No silly little diety list.

4) All game developers must read a basic economics textbook. This stuff isn't hard, really. And then I wouldn't have to perform the crazy mental gymnastics around this stuff (c.f. Ebrron rail costs or paying 100gp for a 1st level spell). I reccomend New Ideas from Dead Economists.

5) The rock-paper-scissors model of the classes breaks down at high levels. Either a) bring back the old experience point curve instead of the linear progression we have now. b) add class features available at level 15 to bolster the weaknesses of the given classes.

6) either get serious about minis or move them to their own seperate game. Right now the game is in mini limbo. I would personally suggest a seperate mini game that had a "heroes" expansion pack so that peopel who didn't play the mini game could at least find a selection of pre-painted D&D figurines.

... just my two cents .... not that WotC is begging me for ideas or anything ...

 

[BlackMoria]

I asked 'The Prophet', a burned out old insane wino who lives behind the garbage container that is behind the liquor store. Stories told by the street people is that 'The Prophet' has been touched by fate and knows the future.

'The Prophet' wanted a quart of whiskey....prophecy is hard, thirsty work, he said.

At any rate...'The Prophet' says that 4E will come out in September of 2010.

You can stop speculating now.

 

[Kanegrundar]

I asked 'The Prophet', a burned out old insane wino who lives behind the garbage container that is behind the liquor store. Stories told by the street people is that 'The Prophet' has been touched by fate and knows the future.

'The Prophet' wanted a quart of whiskey....prophecy is hard, thirsty work, he said.

At any rate...'The Prophet' says that 4E will come out in September of 2010.

You can stop speculating now.

The Prophet is good, the Prophet is wise!

Kane

 

[Rasyr]

And the Prophet is wrong, unless GenCon is held in September of that year (or any year).

Personally, whatever year 4e comes out, I expect it to be announced at the GAMA Trade Show of that year, and to be released at GenCon of that year. That makes the most business and marketing sense to me. Time to ramp up to the new version, without to much time to tick off a large amount of players.

 

[Henry]

Personally, whatever year 4e comes out, I expect it to be announced at the GAMA Trade Show of that year, and to be released at GenCon of that year. That makes the most business and marketing sense to me. Time to ramp up to the new version, without to much time to tick off a large amount of players.

That would be a good pattern; funny thing is, 3E nor 3.5 followed this pattern. 3E was announced Gencon of the previous year, and 3.5 was announced in November (I believe) of 2002. GAMA --> Gencon would be a more sensible arrangement, though.

 

[DonAdam]

I hope this thread sets off another rash of 4e threads, like "What should the pagination look like in the new books?"

 

[Rasyr]

This is possible, but the reason I see it as unlikely is that their company is the one who drafted and okayed the license. As soon as it becomes established in the pre-trial hearing that the terms of the license were being followed, it would likely be dismissed outright (barring unforseen things like judge bribery, etc.) The lawsuit only becomes prolonged if there was a trial.

Anything is always possible...

Stopping use of the d20 logo is the simplest method, and that alone will kill lots of smaller companies who use the logo. The d20 STL is not perpetual nor irrevocable. All Hasbro would have to do is to pull it, from everybody. Guess what? IIRC, there is a clause that says stock needs to be destroyed if the logo license is pulled. That would kill most of the smaller companies right there.

As for the OGL. Well, that came from Dancey. Hasbro could easily have their lawyers say that Hasbro never approved it, that Dancey and the WotC lawyers did it and neglected to inform the parent company. This would be made even easier thanks to the questionable actions of Dancey prior to his getting elected to the GAMA Board of Directors last year, and his subsequent resignation because of those actions. Hasbro could easily use that as "proof" of a deceptive nature and call into question the legitimacy of the OGL. In short, they make him a scapegoat to cover themselves, and if they get away with it, it means that the entire SRD would have been improperly released under the OGL and everything based on it could be called into question.

Or perhaps they will release 4e under license, but not the OGL. Instead they require fees.

Scary thought just occurred... There is nothing preventing Hasbro from reworking the d20 STL to include fees, and attempting to include them retroactively (say, if you continue to use the license for 30 days after the change is made, you are agreeing to retroactive fees for the use of the logo) or perhaps something else along those lines.