D&D 4E 4E in 2008? Fact or Fiction?

[glass]

3e came out in 2000. That's 5 years ago. I think that's a pretty long time. 8 years between actual edition changes isn't terribly bad.

Not to me. This is one advantage a pen-n-paper game have over one version of a videogame, you get longer playability.

Stop convincing Hasbro and WotC that they should follow the videogame model (roll out a new version every 18-24 months).

5-8 years is 60-96 months, not 18-24.

EDIT: To answer the original question: even if 4e is slated for 2008 (which admittedly, is a possibility), WotC's web forum moderators almost certainly wouldn't know, and if they did know, wouldn't say.

Personally, I hope for about 2010 for a 4th edition, but if it came in 2008 I wouldn't be too upset.

glass.

 

[MonsterMash]

I suspect that a certain amount might be driven by sales of the minis line and game - if those hold up and are delivering an acceptable return there may not be pressure from Hasbro in terms of Return on Investment.

Personally I'd be surprised if there aren't some developers doing stuff on the core rules pretty much all the time with a brief to look towards a 4E, but not necessarily looking to produce a product in the short term. So far I'm happy enough with 3.5 and houserules, and if I was going to change systems would really be going over to C&C or Conan RPG rather than another edition of D&D (and of course I really want to play OD&D(1974) again sometime).

Of course I have also heard a rumor that the sky will be falling, but I'm not sure if its in 2006 or 2008.

 

[philreed]

Of course I have also heard a rumor that the sky will be falling, but I'm not sure if its in 2006 or 2008.

I think that's scheduled for later today. Or 2013. I can never remember.

 

[Belen]

Really? Unless something else takes its place, I can't see them getting rid of the d20 license. That would be something that really might harm a significant number of the RPG community. Not to mention the fact that many d20 fans, such as myself, would be very unhappy. WotC brought many people back to D&D with 3E, I doubt they want to do anything that might drive some of that fan base away again.

Why do you think they may get rid of the d20 license?

Actually, I think they will get rid of the license as well. WOTC thought that the 3rd party industry would be making adventures and other aids that Wizards no longer had the staff to do. We have heard them comments on that area several times and each time they sound disappointed in how the license turned out.

Also, I doubt that Hasbro would ever want to keep something like the d20 license.

 

[Belen]

How has it been good for WotC? In the last year? Look at the thread on why people don't read Dragon to see how it has not been good for official D&D products. Or any number of threads on this board where people proclaim that a number of publishers are releasing better products than WotC. Sure it's a tiny, tiny number of people but if the OGL didn't exist the choice would be official D&D or nothing.

It's my opinion that the OGL has helped far more small companies than it has WotC.

I completely agree here. The only question will be how different 3e and 4e will be. I'll bet they force enough changes that the editions will not be compatible. That way, OGL products cannot compete with 4e. I think that Malhavoc, Green Ronin, Fantasy Flight, and Mongoose will survive based on the games they have now, but the beauty of d20 will be lost and people will go back to playing D&D or system of choice where finding players for non-D&D games will be hard.

 

[philreed]

I completely agree here. The only question will be how different 3e and 4e will be. I'll bet they force enough changes that the editions will not be compatible. That way, OGL products cannot compete with 4e. I think that Malhavoc, Green Ronin, Fantasy Flight, and Mongoose will survive based on the games they have now, but the beauty of d20 will be lost and people will go back to playing D&D or system of choice where finding players for non-D&D games will be hard.

Agreed. I think the people like me will survive the change is by teaming with some of those other companies, such as Green Ronin, and changing focus from D20/OGL products to original games.

I sometimes consider creating my own variant PHB in an attempt to build a fanbase of my own but I've yet to figure out a way to make it profitable and successful.

As to how different 4e will be from 3e? Thinking only of money I'd expect fairly drastic changes designed to take advantage of the collectible nature of the minis. Hell, I'd even find a way to build collectible cards into the system.

 

[Belen]

As to how different 4e will be from 3e? Thinking only of money I'd expect fairly drastic changes designed to take advantage of the collectible nature of the minis. Hell, I'd even find a way to build collectible cards into the system.

Ugh! You are probably right. The minis have been such a success that I am sure they will become a main focus of the game.

Now, the question is, how much of their fanbase will they lose if this happens? I, personally, would not play under that model, but if they get enough minis players to switch, then they may not notice.

Or, it could be a disaster.

2008 sounds like a reasonable date for 4e. I can guarantee you that it will not be sooner just because a new edition next year would kill Eberron.

 

[Henry]

Actually, I think they will get rid of the license as well. WOTC thought that the 3rd party industry would be making adventures and other aids that Wizards no longer had the staff to do. We have heard them comments on that area several times and each time they sound disappointed in how the license turned out.

Which is ironic and shortsighted of whoever made that comment, because that's exactly what the d20 license is spurring. People like Goodman Games, Necromancer Games, and Troll Lord Games has found a successful means to release modules, publishers from Ronin Arts to EN Publishing, to countless others are making supplements that interest so many of the niche markets that WotC couldn't possibly cater to, and people like Fiery Dragon and Green Dragon Studio are making play aids to take advantage of the size of this new market. If they don't keep the d20 license, they are cutting off the portion of the fan base (people like us at ENWorld) who do promote and perpetuate the hobby.

 

[Belen]

Which is ironic and shortsighted of whoever made that comment, because that's exactly what the d20 license is spurring. People like Goodman Games, Necromancer Games, and Troll Lord Games has found a successful means to release modules, publishers from Ronin Arts to EN Publishing, to countless others are making supplements that interest so many of the niche markets that WotC couldn't possibly cater to, and people like Fiery Dragon and Green Dragon Studio are making play aids to take advantage of the size of this new market. If they don't keep the d20 license, they are cutting off the portion of the fan base (people like us at ENWorld) who do promote and perpetuate the hobby.

For every Necromancer, you have a Malhavoc or Green Ronin that produce games based on the d20 rules that do not require the use of the PHB. AE and Blue Rose are both variant PHBs that require zero WOTC products. So they are making use of the WOTC rules without a need for WOTC books. If you think about it, Hasbro is not the type of company who would enjoy that type of "support." Heck, Green Ronin even calls it the True20 System. That may be challenging a man with a 12-pound Napolean loaded with grapeshot while standing 10 feet away with a capgun, but it is still a challenge.

The d20 license is no longer working for Wizards. Too many of the most popular books these days do not require the use of the PHB. They suck away part of the audience that could be playing Eberron or FR. Or, at least, that is how it looks to Wizards.

Not saying that I do not want the license to continue, but I do not see why they would do it. Even most of their old talent now works against them!

 

[Rasyr]

As to how different 4e will be from 3e? Thinking only of money I'd expect fairly drastic changes designed to take advantage of the collectible nature of the minis. Hell, I'd even find a way to build collectible cards into the system.

Thinking of money is the only way to think about it. 3.5 was spurred into action 2 years ahead of schedule because of money concerns, as pushed by Hasbro...

Speaking of which......

The one thing that really scares me is the thought that when 4e does come out (whenever that might be), that Hasbro will want to find some way to shut down and prevent folks from using the SRD and OGL.

Now before you get up in arms and say "they can't do that", there are a couple of things to consider. First off, the OGL has never been tested in court, and while it may prevail there, what company has the money for a prolonged lawsuit over it if Hasbro pursues that course?

Hasbro already has a major reputation as a company willing to sue others at the drop of the hat (their success ratio is for squat IIRC, but that is beside the point). They sued a guy for doing a parody of the "Get out of jail free" card, a single card. They have recently sued a guy for his idea of making a board-within-a-board add-on for the monopoly game. They have sued others for even more spurious reasons.

The point is, IF Hasbro starts suing rpg companies that are using the OGL, they can pretty much shut down most, if not all of the companies using it just from eating up their revenue and resources. Hasbro would not care if they were in the right or not, their thoughts would be on shutting down the competition for a 4th edition of D&D.

Now, I am NOT saying that this will happen, only that it is a possibility that must be considered by those companies using the OGL.

And yes, of course this would kill a lot of their online fan-base, but only if they found out about it. It is quite conceivable that they would threaten to sue, and then settle out of court, a settlement that includes a gag order about the settlement, and poof, you have a bunch of small companies quietly shutting down.

And yes, I am slightly paranoid about it. I don't trust large companies to do what is "right", only to do what they consider profitable.

Why do I care if I work for a non-d20 company? Simple. D&D serves a purpose to me. It brings in tons of new gamers. Some of those gamers will eventually move on to other systems, including the ones I support and work on. Thus, it is in my interest to see D&D continue, but as a roleplaying game, not as a miniatures game.