D&D 4E 4E in 2008? Fact or Fiction?

[Henry]

...They suck away part of the audience that could be playing Eberron or FR. Or, at least, that is how it looks to Wizards.

Not saying that I do not want the license to continue, but I do not see why they would do it. Even most of their old talent now works against them!

And they would, as we know, be wrong if they thought this. What it is doing, is keeping d20/OGL fresh on these buyers' minds, because playing Blue Rose, Arcana Unearthed, or Mutants and Masterminds is still from their perspective a darned sight better than playing Unisystem, or Savage Worlds, or Exalted, because there's less fragmentation of the market. Hopefully, they'll remember that Dancey's "Skaff Effect" didn't come out of nowhere, it's bolstered by the gamer networks in-place and now reinforced by having a cross-compatible rules-set to draw from, and having tons of people re-invent the wheel all over again for every game in the channel is something that would be unwise to set in motion for ten years down the pike.

While I don't fear for the strongest competitors (Green Ronin, Malhavoc, Mongoose, and similar have such bases now that they'll continue in some form, and having the creatively better smaller publishers ally themselves with them is only a good thing to the consumer) I fear for the RPG market as a whole, because they could easily take D&D back to faddish status and away from these strong sales numbers they have right now by moving too far from sound business models like, oh, say, giving the customers what they want. The core d20 mechanics are sound mechanics that revitalized D&D like nothing else in the past 20 years; unless they had something up their sleeves so intuitive it defies imagination (like VR D&D) it would hurt more than help to move away.

 

[Gez]

Hell, I'd even find a way to build collectible cards into the system.

White Wolf did just that. Changeling: the Dreaming, first edition. The changelings' magic required the player to buy random "cantrip cards" boosters. (I fully expect someone to post a link to an episode of the Order of the Stick.)

It bombed, vainquished by the terrible power of house-rules.

In C:tD's second edition, the magic system no longer relied on collectible cards.

 

[philreed]

The point is, IF Hasbro starts suing rpg companies that are using the OGL, they can pretty much shut down most, if not all of the companies using it just from eating up their revenue and resources.

Yep. A lawsuit would knock me out instantly. And I suspect companies larger than mine would also collapse within seconds of a lawsuit hitting their doors.

 

[philreed]

It bombed, vainquished by the terrible power of house-rules.

I remember that. I'd actually tie the game even more to the cards making all character creation and advancement card based. And I suspect that if introduced to the collectible minis crowd -- and with the D&D brand -- collectible card elements in the D&D RPG would have greater success than Changeling ever did.

 

[Kanegrundar]

IMO, pulling too far away from 3.x would be a mistake. This edition of D&D is far and away better than anything previous. I'd prefer 4E to be compatible with 3E, but I doubt that will be the case. However, adding in too many outside elements, like a greater dependency on minis, which IMO is easily removed in this edition, would be the wrong path to go down. I would also keep the OGL for nothing else than to keep the fanbase happy.

4E will sell like crazy initially, but unless it's really all that better from 3.x, I think you'll see a lot of people stick with their 3E rules. I could be wrong, but I'm not just speaking for myself.

Kane

 

[Gez]

For every Necromancer, you have a Malhavoc or Green Ronin that produce games based on the d20 rules that do not require the use of the PHB. AE and Blue Rose are both variant PHBs that require zero WOTC products.

I'm not familiar with Blue Rose, but I own the paper version of AE, and let me tell you... This is wrong.

Arcana Evolved does require the DMG and the MM, which are still WotC products. Just in the race section, it says that Mojh can create Mojhborns, or kobolds. In the class section, high-level champions can summon allies that have the stats of fire elementals. Totem warriors, of course, have pets. That's just three tiny examples. There are also references to magic items and NPC classes. Abilities referenced to throughout the AE book, like Damage Reduction, are defined nowhere in AE. NOWHERE. I've searched. Instead, are provided DR figures to both D&D3e and D&D3e Revised rules...

Sure, one may use the SRD instead. But between a real book and a bunch of computer-printed paper sheet, there's a difference.

Anyway, most people who have AU/E also have D&D books.

And if you paid attention to the messageboards, you'll notice that even people who use the AU/E ruleset still buy WotC products. The number of "Oriental Arcana" or "Eberron Unearthed" threads, for example, shows that WotC products are still popular even among those who do not use the PHB.

 

[Kanegrundar]

I remember that. I'd actually tie the game even more to the cards making all character creation and advancement card based. And I suspect that if introduced to the collectible minis crowd -- and with the D&D brand -- collectible card elements in the D&D RPG would have greater success than Changeling ever did.

To the end of ticking off the majority of the fanbase. Thankfully, my 3E books are going nowhere.

Kane

 

[Rasyr]

I remember that. I'd actually tie the game even more to the cards making all character creation and advancement card based. And I suspect that if introduced to the collectible minis crowd -- and with the D&D brand -- collectible card elements in the D&D RPG would have greater success than Changeling ever did.

There are already collectible card elements being introduced. IIRC, they are called Feat Cards or something along those lines and are used by the rpga for tournament play and such....

 

[Belen]

Anyway, most people who have AU/E also have D&D books.

And if you paid attention to the messageboards, you'll notice that even people who use the AU/E ruleset still buy WotC products. The number of "Oriental Arcana" or "Eberron Unearthed" threads, for example, shows that WotC products are still popular even among those who do not use the PHB.

And you know this because you actually use the stuff. Heck, even the Wizards people probably know it, but it is the Hasbro bean-counters that you have to worry about.

 

[MerricB]

The d20 system publishers are tied to Wizards in other ways as well:

Many are run by friends and ex-workmates of those at Wizards.

They're also a great place to find the next good designers.

Cheers!