D&D 4E 4E in Car-speak: "No Sale"

[Old_Skool]

Sounds like your purchasing 4e as a secondary ride, but you're not planning to drive it to the car show where you want to hang out with all the other gear heads with their classic cars. Still, having it in your garage to test drive whenever you want can't be bad. And maybe it will grow on you so that it eventually is the car you want to drive to the car show... since it's in your garage, your options are open.

Maybe; it is nice to have the option. Most likely though, I'll end up using 4E for parts.

No, it's rebuild the drivetrain while keeping the body and frame similar.
3.5 is kinda like stickshift.
I think Manual Transmission SUCKS.

Thus I like 4e. If you want to play 35 more power to you but dude, whatever.

It sounds like 4E's drive train has been completely redesigned. It won't have a stick shift in it, that's for certain...but I doubt it will be completely automatic either. (Slap-shift, maybe?)

 

[D'karr]

So what you're saying is that a Vespa is fun to ride, but you wouldn't want your friends to see you riding one...

 

[neceros]

Firstly, let me preface this with a good ole: Your opinion is your opinion, and so is mine.


Taking your car analogy a bit further, from my perspective, let's correct a few differences in how I see it. Mind you this is not to persuade you or anyone to play 4e or not, I just want to be fair in presentation.

3.5 is like having a car that runs. It used to be a first model car, but eventually new cars get old. When you got the car the AC did it's job, but it made the car smell funny. No one disliked it, because you were cool while outside was hot! Also, A couple of your gears would grind while trying to shift. Last year's cars, also, would fume the air with poisonous smog and pollution. In the end, everyone drove the car because they had nothing better. It was the best it could be.

Now, someone releases a conference saying they've redefined the combustion engine. It will now produce 85% less smog and pollutants! Also, the car isn't cooled my resource wasting AC anymore, they've actually mastered atomic control of the atmosphere. Lastly, the car goes three times as fast, is safer, comes lined with gadgets to make your life easier, and lastly doesn't even need to be fueled anymore -- It runs on bio fuel which boosts the economy, farms and, as stated below, saves our planet.


Now, that's a stretch. I'm trying to show you the difference in analogy. It wouldn't be just a new car model: it would be an entirely different type of car.

4E is literally making gaming better, in almost every way mechanically. It's easier to understand so saves time on new players, saves time on adjudicating difficult decisions, easier to remember how your character can react to the world, and much more.

Anyhow, sorry if I seem rude. It's not my intention. I just want to ensure the apology is just.


Take care.

 

[Henry]

Quasqueton had an old thread about comparing versions of D&D to vintage aircraft throughout history, and made similar points. If you listen to aircraft enthusiasts (or auto enthusiasts), they'll share their stories on how the Mustangs did this, the Messerschmidts did that, the Mosquitoes had a certain handling, etc. but they acknowledge evolutions in design, how things evolve to meet the needs of the future, without taking away the qualities that made the older aircraft so popular or famous. It'd be nice to have mroe people discussing their favorite RPGs in this way without savaging one another.

Mike Mearls hit on this with his OD&D playtests he did at WotC, and I wish it would start a trend of recognizing the differences in editions without people immediately denigrating everything BUT their favorite game systems, and actually recognizing "D&D" as different game systems over time, for the use of different gamers, rather than, as one poster put it, a "platonic ideal."

 

[Mishihari Lord]

I have a different point of view. To me, first edition is like a classic muscle-car. It might not be all shiny and high-tech, but it's got some serious *style*.

QFT!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Nice writeup.

You are open mined towards 4e. Thats all one can ask. If I were not totally broke, i would never sell my old car, before i tested the new one.

I will probably run both 4e and 3e, but I will remember fudging whenever its possible in 3e, because i just don´t have the time to follow all the rules for NSCs...

 

[CleverNickName]

3.5 is like having a car that runs. It used to be a first model car, but eventually new cars get old. When you got the car the AC did it's job, but it made the car smell funny. No one disliked it, because you were cool while outside was hot! Also, A couple of your gears would grind while trying to shift. Last year's cars, also, would fume the air with poisonous smog and pollution. In the end, everyone drove the car because they had nothing better. It was the best it could be.

Now, someone releases a conference saying they've redefined the combustion engine. It will now produce 85% less smog and pollutants! Also, the car isn't cooled my resource wasting AC anymore, they've actually mastered atomic control of the atmosphere. Lastly, the car goes three times as fast, is safer, comes lined with gadgets to make your life easier, and lastly doesn't even need to be fueled anymore -- It runs on bio fuel which boosts the economy, farms and, as stated below, saves our planet.

4E will save the world!

I think the biggest difference between Old_Skool's 3.5E and the 3.5E that necros describes is maintenance. Most people prefer to play the game right out of the box, just like most people like to drive cars right off the lot in "factory" condition...oh sure, they might tint the windows or get some personalized bumper stickers, but for the most part their car looks like everyone else's. Old_Skool, on the other hand, is a gearhead who loves to work on his car, sometimes for days on end, until it "purrs like a kitten." The custom parts of his car probably outnumber the factory parts on it...and that's just the way he likes it. All cars will get old and start showing signs of wear and tear, even the newest model. Few people have the time, resources, and know-how to keep making those repairs over time. Most folks would rather be on the road than in the shop.

Most will trade up to 4E for a lot of the same reasons that most people trade up their cars every few years: fashionable looks, better performance, easy-to-find parts, and they don't have to deal with mechanics.

 

[Felon]

There is no denying that 4E is a sweet machine, and has earned every single accolade that it has been given. I can't wait to test-drive it.

Sure there's denying all that. There's big-time rejection, matter of fact.

4e doesn't look like it's anything but minimalist. If feels they punted whenever a design decision had to be made, opting for simplicity over elegance.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

My car is loaded from top to bottom will all the gadgets, gears, and special features ever produced. James Bond would trade his car for my car. Yet I still wouldn't mind working on a 2nd car, and getting that one as tricked out and powerful as the one I have as well.

Of cource, I'm a car collector, with a few makes and models. I'm almost finished with my Palladium car, and realy wish they would give me a new model. My White Wolf car has been done for years, and though a new one came out... I kinda don't like the brand anymore. Monty Cook seems to do good upgraded and revamped Cars, so I've been looking for his parts as well.
My antique collection only goes back to AD&D, but I'm looking for a fully preserved orriginal model.

Theres plenty of room in my garage for one more car.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

For me 3.5 has a lot of miles on it, the tires are worn, its showing some rust spots that are going to become real problems, the various engine parts are beginning to fail and the warranty has expired.

Yeah, I could probably get another 50,000 - 100,000 miles out of it if I cared enough about it and really tried. . .

But just about to be released is a shiny red new sports car. It may not live up to all the hype, but it will definitely be shiny, red, and fun to drive. . . which is more than I can say about this old rust bucket *kicks tire*.

Best of all, the shiny red sports car is only going to cost me around $60 through Amazon. How great a deal is that?