D&D 4E 4e -- Is The World Made Of Cheese?

[Dragonstriker]

I dont see acid doing anything to marble, thats one of the reasons kitchen counters were made of marble back in the day

I know we've kind of moved past this, but marble is easily dissolved by even weak acids, such as vinegar, or dilute acids like acid rain.
Just FYI.
Marble; vuln acid 5

 

[Victoly]

Why does Lizard hate freedom so much?

You know, they call it "Kick in the Door" because they can't just kick through the wall, right?

 

[LostSoul]

Dundelundundun! Riding to the rescue for this whole issue would be skill challenges. There, now you can tunnel to your hearts content. Need to tunnel X distance. It's a Y challenge requiring Z checks and takes however much time that seems reasonable.

Yeah, that was my first thought as well.

It's a non-combat challenge; why use the combat mechanics to resolve it?

 

[silentounce]

Yeah, that was my first thought as well.

It's a non-combat challenge; why use the combat mechanics to resolve it?

Living wall?

 

[mattdm]

I know this thread has gone way off track, but I still wanted to respond to this:

Maybe. But it seems every time I start liking 4e, the rules (if you can call them that) go out of their way to slam me in the face with ham-fisted "simplicity" that makes the game world impossible to believe in.

Here's the thing: believe in the game world first, and use the rules as tools for representing that world to the players. Imagine it to be sensible and self-consistant, and everything shakes out as it should.

 

[variant]

Why do we need to refer back to previous edition for a rule that should have been there? Didn't we buy a full set of rules for $110? Obviously not.

Simply saying that "DM can decide" is freaking cheesy and lazy on the developers part. If I didn't want rules I would be playing LARP!

 

[silentounce]

Here's another example. I'm pretty sure nearly everyone here would have gladly traded the tables on page 186 for a hardness table. NPC traits and quirks? Come on. I'm sure you'll all have a defense for that as well. But I don't think anyone in here who suggested that the DMs job is to be creative and imaginative can support those tables over some mechanical tables without being a hypocrit. Those kind of things, dungeon dressing and the like are just as superfluous as having tables for every little mechanical thing.

 

[The Little Raven]

Here's another example. I'm pretty sure nearly everyone here would have gladly traded the tables on page 186 for a hardness table. NPC traits and quirks? Come on. I'm sure you'll all have a defense for that as well. But I don't think anyone in here who suggested that the DMs job is to be creative and imaginative can support those tables over some mechanical tables without being a hypocrit. Those kind of things, dungeon dressing and the like are just as superfluous as having tables for every little mechanical thing.

Not when you stop and realize that the game is being designed with new players/DMs in mind, and not assuming that a DM has experience like the previous DMGs did. An experienced DM may get more out of random generation tables, but new DMs get more out of essays that teach them how to truly take control of their games.

 

[silentounce]

gah! please delete
My computer was lagging hard and it got posted three times.
I've been having issues with Firefox hanging as well.

 

[silentounce]

gah! please delete
My computer was lagging hard and it got posted three times.
I've been having issues with Firefox hanging as well.