D&D 4E 4E: Manufactured Excitement

[billd91]

If you are playing 3.5 and having fun, why even bother looking at/wasting time with 4E until (at the very least) it is released for a few months, and you get a chance to read reviews and do some (free) game tests?

Because the anticipation and speculation can be fun too? Is there something wrong with that? I can't have 2 different kinds of fun? Plus, if some cool ideas come up, I might be able to incorporate them into my 3.5 game whether or not they actually end up in 4e.

 

[WyzardWhately]

I buy new games *all the time.* If 4E manages the following two conditions, I'm most likely going to buy it.

1. It doesn't suck.
2. It seems likely to get a lot of play-time.

If it sucks, I won't buy it because I try not to buy games that suck. Regardless of what you've seen on the internet, there aren't a whole lot of popular RPGs that suck or are 'unplayable.' I've never understood how you can rail against a game for sucking when it has a big thriving community of people who play it. There aren't a lot of games out there with a bunch of people playing them that I'm outright too good to touch the core books for. Specific campaigns, maybe.

Two is more complicated. In order to play, I pretty much need other humans to play with. If they're all playing 4E, it behooves me to have access to those materials. There aren't a lot of really popular games that I don't have at least the basic materials for - the only one I can think of is GURPS. And D&D is far more common that GURPS. Hell, it's nearly as common as dirt.

So WotC is in a pretty good position regarding me buying their manual next spring. Now, this isn't a blank check to put forth only the minimum quality to get a horde of D&D players, a horde which is big enough to give me an incentive to be prepared to play it. See, what really matters is whether I buy expansions. I'll buy the PHB based on the 'doesn't suck' standard. But they need to ROCK to get me to buy the expansions.

In 3.x, far too many of the expansions failed to rock. Lords of Madness was good, Fiendish Codex II was good, most of the environment/setting stuff like frostburn and stormwrack were supposed to be good although I never got them. Heroes of Battle and Tome of Magic (the book with the truenamer) were sadly, well, not so great. Then they turned it around and Heroes of Horror was pretty damn decent. And I know they want to make expansions I'm going to buy, which I won't do if the core system doesn't give me what I want.

So far, I'm pretty enamored of having a real social conflict system. Good social combat rules are one of the major things I look for in a game. I realize that social combat is flame-bait of the first order, but I love it and that's part of what my decision will be based on.

But, y'know, it's not too tough for someone to look the game over first before they buy it. So, if you're worried, just make it clear you're going to be a critical consumer. It's not fair to the designers to declare, at this stage, that 4E is going to be terrible. But it's not fair to YOU to buy it sight unseen, either. If you have any doubts, don't pre-order. Take your time. Someone at your table will buy it first, take a look through it and hang out. You can wait a week after the release date to make your decision, if that's what you want.

What I'm getting at here is that too many people are acting like we have to marry ourselves to the new edition RIGHT NOW or else FORSAKE IT FOREVER, and that's just not the case.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Is it just me, or is anyone else out there a little perplexed by the wild excitement of the MerricB's on this board?

Not really. People get excited about new things they think are going to be good. You've never been excited about something before? Even when you've only heard a little bit about it?

You've never seen a trailer for a movie and said "Wow...that looks AWESOME, I am so going to see that when it comes out!"? You've never seen screenshots for a new computer game and thought the same thing? Never heard your favorite band was coming out with a new album and just knew it would be great because of how good their previous ones were?

The bottom line is money; they know they can make a huge profit out of 4E, and that's why it is being created and released. If it's a great game, that is icing on the cake.

Hahahaha. Sorry, I was just laughing at HUGE profit. You realize that role playing games don't make all the much money. Even if they do really well, they still will get a moderate profit. Enough to keep their business going and continuing to give us the game we want.

Unless you'd prefer they stopped? I'm sure that could be arranged and they could go into a business where they CAN make huge profit.

 

[rkwoodard]

Why?

Is it just me, or is anyone else out there a little perplexed by the wild excitement of the MerricB's on this board?

WOTC wants to make more money. That's their job; they make money. As a company, that's is their goal. Fine. To do this, they have decided to release 4E.

As gamers, and consumers, we know why they are doing this: again, to make money. It's not because our 3.5 games suddenly became unplayable. It's not because we were clamoring for 4E (the majority of gamers in most polls on this site didn't desire 4E for a number of years yet, if at all). It's not because WOTC really wants to make the game more fun for us; if their new release manages this, that's a bonus.

The bottom line is money; they know they can make a huge profit out of 4E, and that's why it is being created and released. If it's a great game, that is icing on the cake.

{I'm sure many WOTC people are working hard to make it a great game. But 4E is going to be release when the business people say, not when it is honed into "greatness." }

So, honestly, why is everyone getting so excited/crazy about this?

How are you not simply acting like little pawns being pushed around the board by the WOTC PR people?

If you are playing 3.5 and having fun, why even bother looking at/wasting time with 4E until (at the very least) it is released for a few months, and you get a chance to read reviews and do some (free) game tests?

All this chitter-chatter and overheated parsing of WOTC 4E snippets; it's really a bit sad.

I don't understand the blind fan-boy devotion, which is what I see in a lot of 4E threads. It is a new release of the game, released to make money. WOTC wants your money. That is the bottom line. And for this you are hopping up and down with excitement, your fistful of dollars extended?

Isn't it, well, more normal to, well, you know, actually view a new product with a modicum of skepticism, educate yourself about it (after it is released), and only then - if what you see matches your expectations - get excited about it and buy it?

Why this sheep-like, herd-like, lemming-like thralldom to WOTC financial-driven announcements?

Why? Because it is fun. It is fun to get excited and hyped over something, esp. something like a game...or tv show (the month of august was a month of can't wait till Season 2 of Heroes gets here).

In May of 08 we will have the product and will judge it on its full merits at that point. Till then it is like looking at Christmas presents.

RK

 

[Nifft]

WOTC wants to make more money. That's their job; they make money. As a company, that's is their goal. Fine. To do this, they have decided to release 4E.

There are easier ways to make more money. The folks at WotC is doing 4e instead of one of these superior income increasing strategies because they like making games more than they like making money.

If it's a great game, that is icing on the cake.

Wrong. If it's not a better game than 3.5e, they won't get my money. I'm excited about 4e because it sounds like it will be a better game.

So, honestly, why is everyone getting so excited/crazy about this?

Good track record. 3.0e > 2e, and 3.5e > 3.0e, and ToB:Bo9S > Complete Warrior.

If you are playing 3.5 and having fun, why even bother looking at/wasting time with 4E until (at the very least) it is released for a few months, and you get a chance to read reviews and do some (free) game tests?

Because it's interesting.

The real question, though, is why are you reading all these threads in the 4e forum? There's a lot of 3.5e forums on EN World. Why are you here?

Is it just to give us the benefit of your insight? Are you suffering through these 4e discussions only to selflessly help others? If so, that's a terrible burden, and you have put it upon yourself unnecessarily.

We're all okay. We'll buy it or not. In the mean time, it's interesting to discuss. Even with trolls.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rechan]

Not to go all philosophical, but I think this might be more indicative of the types of people we're dealing with, then actual D&D.

There has always been, and will always be, people who are excited by and look forward to change.

There has always been, and will always be, people who are resistant to and dread change.

Taken at their extremes, neither is good (Slaadi vs. Formians?).

I don't think that the people who are excited about 4e are JUST excited about change. They would not feel the way they do if they actually felt what was happening would stop them from enjoying their games. If WotC said "HEY EVERYBODY, you guys know trolls? Those giants that regenerate unless you force-feed them fire? Well now they FART UNICORNS! And they wear clown pants! IT'S GUNNA BE AWESOME!" I honestly think every one of the people jazzed about 4e would feel the grip of fear slink into their hearts, that 4e will not be great.

I, personally, do not feel that fear. Because I do not see this happening.

Maybe I could say it's because I never sat down to roll dice until the tail end of 2e, even though I as a young boy sat in the book store marveling at the art in the Monstrous Compendium Annual, but never understanding what the text meant. I owned the MM and the PHB, but they didn't MEAN anything to me beyond what they stood for: Gaming, fun, monsters, fantasy, playing with others. It wasn't until 3e that I actually got the chance. So I could say "I don't have the baggage" that everyone does. I don't see anything that's "D&D" being taken away. I was never attached to the Great Wheel, I don't know the intimate details of Demogorgon's diary, or whether the Spawn of Kyuss is right or left handed.

But then, there's Piratecat and others who are oldschool gamers, who are excited just like me.

It's certainly not about suckling the teat of WotC. When 4e was announced, I was angry. Namely because I felt it was too soon for a new edition - 3.5 was only four years old. I didn't want them to come out with 4.5 or 5e six years from now. I can buy supplements fine, but I don't like having my books made obsolete.

But the more I read about 4e, the more excited I get, because they're doing things that look good to me. Giving Fighters weapon-focused capacities. Making wizards work all day long. Making monsters around a concept, theme, and power set, rather than HD and cookie-cutter abilities, or saying 'Oh and it casts like a 7th level sorcerer also'. I've hated how Fey were the redheaded step child locked in the cellar of 3e.

And so seeing ideas that I like makes Me excited.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

I'd love to reply, but everything seems to have been covered.

 

[psionotic]

I remember when Second Edition came out. I loved it, but I could admit that it was not a perfect system. After a few years, the things that annoyed me about it started to pile up. When 3e was announced I was extremely excited about WotC's 'money-grubbing, financially motivated' attempt to improve the game.

I remember when Third Edition came out. I loved it, but I could admit that it was not a perfect system. After a few years, the things that annoyed me about it started to pile up. When 3.5 was announced I was convinced, having seen the previews, that WotC's 'money-grubbing, financially motivated' attempt would improve the game.

I remember when 3.5 came out. I loved it, but I could admit that it was not a perfect system. After a few years, the things that annoyed me about it started to pile up. When 4e was announced I was extremely excited about WotC's 'money-grubbing, financially motivated' attempt to improve the game.


I'm hoping that 4e gives me 5-6 years of sweet, sweet D&D goodness. After a while, I'm sure little things that annoy me will start to pile up, at which point...

 

[Rechan]

The one thing I hate about new editions is if you buy it, and you don't "Know anyone", everyone you talk to you have that apprehensive "So uh, did you upgrade". I always am wary I'll step on the social land mine of someone who didn't and is very upset, or looks at you funny.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

It's not because our 3.5 games suddenly became unplayable. <snip>

If you are playing 3.5 and having fun, why even bother looking at/wasting time with 4E until (at the very least) it is released for a few months, and you get a chance to read reviews and do some (free) game tests?

I think you found a solution to your concerns in your own post. Thus, there's no need for you to wonder about 4e optimists or worry on our behalf any further