D&D 4E 4E: Manufactured Excitement

[Gundark]

I'll tell you what I'm excited about.

Hopefully by August 2008, I won't be seeing as many threads like this.

QFT!!!!!

 

[Engilbrand]

We changed over to Exalted 2nd Edition a few months back. We liked the system and abilities a lot better than 3.5. I like the system a lot more because it's a lot more open to what you can do and encourages you to make something interesting happen. D&D doesn't do that. The new edition excites me because it sounds like they're opening things up a lot more like Exalted.
I'm also in a game that uses the FR Underdark as a setting, but uses the New World of Darkness rules. It's a ton of fun.

 

[two]

Because manufactured optimism is less likely to leave you with a black hole in your soul than manufactured outrage?

Are we past the point where superficially clever retorts are used to dismiss actual debate? No? Oh well.

 

[two]

"Honestly?"

Because the 4e design philosophy jibes almost *entirely* with my own.

Because the elements of 4e that I have seen thus far are either:
1. Things I already do in my home games, or
2. Things I *wish* I had thought of, and can't wait to see in play.



You're adorable!

Ok I can see this; you feel like your house rules are being "justified" in a way by reflecting, in advance, 4e. I guess I can understand that sort of satisfaction; it makes you feel like your own game is linked into the designers, in a way.

 

[two]

Good point. All else being equal, it's better to be positive than negative.

The trouble is, you never know when "all else [is] equal."

Is there anything more depressing than a blind optimist, striding confidently into doom? I am thinking of those poor early Western explorers who packed up their bags, set out for Kansas, and (in the fact of their own inexperience and the advice of friends) managed to freeze to death during the winter, both husband, wife, and three children. Go West, my Son, and be Optimistic. Just have your eyes open, eh?

 

[two]

You honestly want my opinion?

Really?

Are you sure you can handle it?

Okay then ... I like the sound of 4e because it's another step in the development of D&D, and I am curious to see where it leads.

Before I leave this earth, there will have been several more editions of D&D, and I will receive every one of them with intense interest just to see what the game develops into.

And also buying the core books for 4e is an insignificant expenditure for me, so why not join the fun?

And contrary to what some other people believe, it is possible to be excited about 4e, while at the same time being excited about the 3.5e campaign I'm running, that will continue after 4e hits the shelves.

But honstly ... I'm that kind of person. I get excited about interesting things happening. And a new release of D&D is pretty interesting, judging from the fact that even people who don't like it want to discuss it.

/M

Ok, you like new stuff, because it's new. I can see that.

 

[two]

I STILL find it funny that people hate Wizards for trying to make money. It boggles the mind. I saw a lot of the same vitriol directed against Blizzard back when I played WoW.

I guess I'm just not the rebel-vagabond-samurai-warrior that you are two. I just flail about, my limbs independent of my brain, mindlessly awaiting the latest out of Renton.

I trust you don't think I am mad at WOTC for making money. I am not; it is their legal OBLIGATION to make money for their shareholders. I am fine with WOTC making money. I have a problem with people throwing their money at WOTC for reasons I can't quite comprehend. But I am getting there.

 

[two]

A troll? Time to break out the flames of reason, and the acid of critical thought!



And there's nothing wrong with that.



Classic mistake here, assuming that one motivation precludes the other. Maybe the motivation is: "There are some things we really didn't get right with 3.xe. Mearls had some great ideas in Iron Heroes, let's see if we can get him to fix those things. If we profit, hey, that's a bonus."



I'm sure the folks at Fasa didn't have the same thought in their minds when they put out the first edition of Shadowrun. Steve Jackson, probably never had such a thought when he put out GURPS.



I can't speak for anyone else, but I LIKE what I'm hearing. I've played d20 with a number of very smart, very critical gamers. There are some things that just don't work right in 3.xe. There are some things that can be done better. It sounds like they're addressing those things in 4e.



Hmm. Perhaps because I've considered the things I don't like about 3.xe and see that they're addressing them in 4e? Oh, yeah, and because I occasionally think about stuff for myself.



Because I'm a geek. As a geek, I'm genetically predisposed to being an early adopter. Oh, and because I know a number of people who work in the game design field, and I like to know what is going on in their lives. Also, because by reading about what they're doing, I get a chance to know early on if this is something I'm interested in investing my limited time resources in.



Yeah, but I got excited about Ultima V before it came out too! And that Spider-Man movie too. See, I crave entertainment. I'm willing to trade my money for it. But hey, maybe I'm just weird that way.



See my earlier comment about being an early adopter. Also, I like being able to discuss this stuff with my friends.



Why the insultingly rude attempt to piss on my campfire? Yes, profit is one factor pushing the release of 4e. A desire to improve one of my hobbies is another. I liked what I saw in Iron Heroes. I like the work I've seen by Mike Mearls. I like knowing what's in the future of D&D.

You got a problem with that?

Tough.

--G

Early Adopter. I can see that. As for motivation, WOTC is delivering 4E for profit. That is the motivation. Any attempt to think they are delivering it (more than, say, 10%) because they want to improve the game is, well, I don't think justified if you look at the business end of things. They are producing the game because they need to make money. There is nothing wrong with this.

But to say that anyone at WOTC thought "hey, let's make the game better... let's create 4E... oh, and maybe we can make money too!" is living in a fantasy world. That's not how public companies work. In fact, if they did work that way, the shareholders might revolt.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Are we past the point where superficially clever retorts are used to dismiss actual debate? No? Oh well.

Your response posits an actual debate was already in existance.

As to your OP..

Optimisitic and critical review of 4e tidbits can impact on the designer's ongoing play-tests. Critisism here on this board may very well affect the final outcome of the game. I would much rather be able to critically examine 4E while that chance to change it is here.

Your OP seems to reflect a world view where there are only two, those who are interested {and therefore mindless sheep} and those who are jaded {and therefore not mindless sheep}.
I submit that a number of posters on this board are both interested *and* jaded {and therefore neither mindless nor sheep... }

In reading the 4e threads, I actually see many more nay-sayers about 4e than I do 'overly excited' people. Cautiously optimistic is, IMHO, a better description.

Is there anything more depressing than a blind optimist, striding confidently into doom?

Yes. The blind pessimist who has lost all hope and sits in despair waiting for the expected end.
After all, if no-one went West... where would WoTC headquarter at?

[edit]
One post at a time man!

"hey, let's make the game better... let's create 4E... oh, and maybe we can make money too!"

IMHO its condensed more like.. if we continue the current supplemental process we will lose a portion of new customers due to the weight of the rules and high 'cost' of starting the game. THere are known issues with the current rules. If we can fix these rules, streamline the system, and create a product that appeals more to the customers in our target market..we can continue being a profitable business.
A large portion of our target market is repeat customers who we will lose if the new edition is not an improvement over the old edition.
If we fail to upgrade and gain new gamers, we lose profitability and drop out of the market. If we fail in improving during the upgrade, we lose profitability and drop out of the market. If either of these happen, Steve Jackson Games will take over and rule the world as Friend Jackson.

Well, maybe not that last part
So, your right. Its not completely altruistic. But its also not all 'The Man is keeping the Gamer down!'

 

[two]

The three Star Wars sequels might not have been great either. But they were official entries, upgrades even, to the Star Wars universe from the official source. The launch of the first (fourth) movie was like a national holiday, with people taking the day off to see it.

Halo 3 is the same thing. People went nuts over the release. Why? Because it was that rare happening in geekdom: a landmark entry from an official source to a beloved hobby.

Can I share something with you, since we're buddies in our egalitarian view of the universe?

Come closer.

A little closer.

Closer.

It doesn't matter what 4E actually turns out to be. Or that Halo 3's graphics are similar to Halo 2. Or that the fourth Star Wars movie didn't recapture the magic for everyone who saw the first three.

It's the event itself that matters. For the moment, we are all united in our hope, our doubt, and our interest in the hobby we love. In a sense, speculating about our hobby's future is a hobby unto itself.

You don't have to agree with everyone, but ranting about peoples' excitement over a landmark event on a board dedicated to that very excitement seems a bit disingenuous.

I find this line of reasoning to be very depressing.

If all that matters is the event... not the content... well, I guess we already see that in the current art market.

I'd also like to point out that you can participate in the event, AS an event, without giving WOTC any of your money, until you have actually SEEN the product.

Those are not incompatible.

I prefer to be excited about actual, well, content that I find... exciting. Not the fluffy PR campaign that whips people up into a frenzy over bits of nothing.