D&D 4E 4E: Manufactured Excitement

[Rechan]

On its face, a ridiculous concept.

But in the hands of the right author?

I say that any bad idea, if done well, can be good.

You just need Profession: Screenwriter (EPIC) to pull it off.

 

[The Little Raven]

Ah, so those of us who are enthusiastic about 4e might not be sheep and lemmings, but paid plants?

I guess that means guys like him might be paid plants from competitors, like Palladium, since we're busting out the tinfoil hats and all.

 

[Rechan]

For the record, I'm not convinced 4E is gonna suck. The thing of it is, the people who are saying how streamlined, and how great it is, and how much fun it's gonna be are the same ones that want me to buy the game and it's inevitable parade of supplements. That automatically makes me a little suspicious. And that suspicion makes me want to reserve judgement until I have the product in hand.

Okay, time for me to put you in the hot seat.

Let us say you are a designer. You are designing a product. That product has a HUGE FOLLOWING.

You do not have a finished product. All you have is What your Goals are, and what design philosophy you have while approaching those goals.

So, since you can't tell the people in the following about the crunch (because it isn't finished yet)... what are you going to tell them?

The blogs can be condensed down to this: "This is what we are TRYING to do: make it streamlined, less prep time, balance and equalize the party." They're hyping this stuff because that's ALL THEY CAN TELL YOU.

 

[No Name]

Ah, so those of us who are enthusiastic about 4e might not be sheep and lemmings, but paid plants?

Wormwood is a plant?


It all makes sense now!

 

[WizarDru]

Wormwood is a plant?


It all makes sense now!

You just broke my brain. You have won the intarwebs.

 

[Wormwood]

edit: LOL

 

[gizmo33]

Either 4E is going to be better than 3E, or I'll continue with 3E. In either case I'm at least as well off as before, and possibly things are better.

I guess I'm a sheep, I'm not really sure since I don't follow Chinese astrology. The rest of the OP is weird or insulting.

 

[hazel monday]

Okay, time for me to put you in the hot seat.

Let us say you are a designer. You are designing a product. That product has a HUGE FOLLOWING.

You do not have a finished product. All you have is What your Goals are, and what design philosophy you have while approaching those goals.

So, since you can't tell the people in the following about the crunch (because it isn't finished yet)... what are you going to tell them?

The blogs can be condensed down to this: "This is what we are TRYING to do: make it streamlined, less prep time, balance and equalize the party." They're hyping this stuff because that's ALL THEY CAN TELL YOU.

Ok. I hear you.
The thing is, I'm pretty sure they do have a completed product. If they were so inclined, and if their bosses allowed it, they could explain the mechanics of the game right now. Any playtesting that they're doing at this point is just a formality. The game is written. Not that that's here or there in regards to this conversation. i just wish the designers would stop pretending that everything isn't set in stone at this point.
This is what gets under my skin about the hype. They're not saying anything of substance about the game. I realize they have to treat their customers as consumers instead of human beings, I just don't like it. Of course, that's my problem and not theirs. Still, I find it irritates me.
This is how the WOTC PR campaign seems to play out to me. And maybe this is unfair, but it's how it seems to me.


WOTC: We're making a better game for you! It'll be more fun because it's streamlined for ease of play!!
Customer: OK. That sounds good. How'd you streamline it?
WOTC: By making it easier to play!!
Customer: Yeah right, I get it. But HOW did you do that?
WOTC: Did I mention it's Streamlined??!!!
Customer: ...You're not really gonna answer any of my Questions are you?
WOTC.... We got rid of Frost Giants! and Druids. Just like you asked us to!
Customer: I don't remember asking for that...
WOTC: I know! It's streamlined!! Isn't it great!!! And if you wait til December, we'll let you buy the ads for it in the form of a preview book!!
Customer: Ok... Ok.. I get it. i'll just move along, nothing to see here.


I'm glad that most folks are excited about 4E. i hope it's great. I want D&D to remain a strong brand and whatnot. I just feel like I'm being played. I find it hard to get excited about a product when I feel like it's creators are talking down to me.

 

[Clavis]

Instead of venting your hostility on the forums, here's an alternative way to spend your time. March your self-righteous attitude back to your local organic privately-owned coffee house, sip on your cappuccino, tie back your dreadlocks so you can read your 3e books, and feel impressed with your own unconventional, nonconformist lifestyle.

Hey, that sounds like fun!
Will there also be cute, bisexual polyamorous girls following their alternative lifestyle at the coffee house?

 

[Sundragon2012]

Why this sheep-like, herd-like, lemming-like thralldom to WOTC financial-driven announcements?

1. It is exciting to see a new edition of D&D that might make the game, mechanically, more able to replicate the kind of adventures and settings I want to DM

2. It is exciting to see them dump artifacts, like mechanical aspects of alignment and the Great Wheel, that IMO needed to be cast into a volcano long ago.

3. There are some really good points to the SAGA system and I think these rules can help D&D dramatically

4. D&D 3.5 is a bloated beast that is a nightmare to DM at high levels because of the tedious combat.....combats that take too long and cut into the session too much are unfun.

5. If they can make the mechanics in the game more transparent at high levels so that the game is more fun at high level then this is great

6. Dumping 3.5's Christmas Tree Effect is fantastic

7. Making a more definitive difference between devils and demons is IMO a good idea.

8. Talent trees replacing PrCs is a good thing. PrCs have become an abused concept. Supposedly a DMs tool to add flavorful classes unique to their setting they became too prominant part of the game.

9. As a FR fan, I believe FR needs a reboot.

10. Ditching the Vancian magic system for the most part thereby making wizards more like those of fiction and myth

11. Combat abilities for warrior that a DM can weave into the setting as setting specific combat styles...I will leave out spell-like powers for warriors in my game however if these are in the rules.

12. That the weapon you choose matters.

etc, etc, etc,

Also, squash the insults. Don't even attempt to characterize those of us who look forward to 4e as lemmings. I see lemmings among those who are manufacturing doomsday scenarios the SAME way they did for 3e before it was released. I see ignorant, petty, thoughtless insults leveled at designers by individuals who couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag. I see WoTC, the company that saved D&D from extinction and created the OGL being demonized as money-grubbing anti-gamer corporate scum and so on and so on.

I used to do marketing for my own company so I can differentiate between hype and substance. What I have listed above are mechanical and lore changes I agree with outside of the hype.



Sundragon