D&D 4E 4e mid encounter fatigue

[Mathew_Freeman]

I think the key issue is moving the villains around. Now that Opportunity attacks aren't so deadly (as they are only basic attacks) it's not too big a deal for a villain to take one in order to bypass a defender and hit the exposed striker.

Villains can afford to take more risks, do more unexpected things and come with better plans. Once the villains do it, rest assured players will respond in kind.

I also agree that the increased use of traps and terrain (and "static" monsters like plants) would also help with this to a great extent. Over the next few months I expect a lot of threads on making combat flow better (not least of which because I'll probably start one!)

 

[KidSnide]

A good strategy for this is for the terrain to have lots of places where the PCs can move through, but where it is not safe to remain. If the "safe squares" then change on a round-by-round basis, it will give the PCs a reason to be constantly moving around to remain in a useful formation. A trick like this can be overused, but it's handy to have them if you have a solo fight that could turn boring.

Also, I imagine that this problem decreases as you get higher level. At 1st level, you really only have 2 or 3 non-at-will powers plus an action point. By 10th level, it will take more rounds before the party exhausts its interesting capabilities. Each character will get 9 expendable powers (3 encounter, 3 daily, 3 utility), plus probably a half-dozen or so abilities from your magic items, along with an action point and whatever other random powers you have from multi-class feats or other non-standard abilities.

 

[Torchlyte]

This thread is poses a good question. I look forward to seeing more of people's creative solutions.

I think the key issue is moving the villains around. Now that Opportunity attacks aren't so deadly (as they are only basic attacks) it's not too big a deal for a villain to take one in order to bypass a defender and hit the exposed striker.

Villains can afford to take more risks, do more unexpected things and come with better plans. Once the villains do it, rest assured players will respond in kind.

I also agree that the increased use of traps and terrain (and "static" monsters like plants) would also help with this to a great extent. Over the next few months I expect a lot of threads on making combat flow better (not least of which because I'll probably start one!)

I'm not sure this is true, looking at the Fighter class features. Fey Step may become an important BBEG move.

 

[muffin_of_chaos]

I'll be coming up with homebrewed rules myself for the problem of at-will/encounter/daily powers. Most likely I'll make At-Will powers expendable but with the ability to recharge based on a d6 (like monsters), while Encounter powers recharge on criticals (maybe only once) and Daily powers can be recharged on a d6 on a roll players can make once per day when bloodied.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I wonder if we will see some interesting encounter designs in Keep on the Shadowfell, that we can use to model other encounters. I certainly hope so.

 

[Torchlyte]

'Bloodied => Reasoning => Recharge Powers' appears to be the most popular solution so far.

I wonder if we will see some interesting encounter designs in Keep on the Shadowfell, that we can use to model other encounters. I certainly hope so.

Agreed.

I have a love-hate relationship with this module. I want to finish my own homebrew campaign before the end of summer, but I need to run KotS first...

 

[Stalker0]

I don't think this is a problem with 4e, its just a factor of 1st level play.

4e gave 1st level characters a heck of a lot more to do, but they are still 1st level characters, they aren't masters of the universe. They run out of resources faster than a 10th level group. At higher level when you have more encounters through levels, magic items, feats, etc I think you'll have more to do.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Encounters

I also didn't have a problem with my players starting with encounters off the bat - they saved them for when they decided was the "right moment". I also had my players try unorthodox maneuvers in the middle of combat (those not covered by the powers), so that changed things up a bit; overturning obstacles, tossing people off of ledges, jumping off a ledge onto a prone target as a charge attack, etc.

It kept things interesting.

 

[mmadsen]

This sounds like the reason why monsters are getting abilities that come into play once they've been "bloodied".

Exactly. If you give characters higher-power attacks with one use per encounter, you should expect them to lead off with those attacks -- unless you create other reasons for them to hold off.

We might expect to see some anime- and video game-inspired ways to finish off a bloodied opponent. "Finish him!"

 

[Dragonblade]

I have noticed this in my playtest. The core issue seems to be as follows:

Everything has more HP and their attacks generally do less damage in 4e.

I presume this was intended to make combats go longer. Why do we want longer combats? So more players can get turns, so more powers get used, so monsters aren't one round wonders and can actually get cool attacks off.

This works best for encounters at or a bit below the PC's level. The problem comes in when you run encounters with monsters at a higher level. Due to lower damage output and higher hitpoints, the players and monster both can duke it out for a long time. The monster can no longer nuke PCs that are of lower level like would often happen in 3.5, and since it has a lot of hit points it takes a long time for the players to bring it down.

This results in players running out of powers and the combat becoming boring as the rounds drag on.

So what would a good fix be? Perhaps lowering hitpoints of monsters of higher level back down to what would be appropriate if the monster was of the PC's level. Or perhaps some sort of midfight power refresh mechanic? Hmm, without more experience playing with the full rules, I don't want to get too crazy.