D&D 4E 4e MMs? Which should I get?

[Sylrae]

Having seen a 4e monster stat block, I noticed they seem to be pretty easily used in a non4e game.
I'm going to run a few 4e monsters in an upcoming pathfinder game. For those who don't know, while pathfinder is a 3e derivative game, the design philosophies are similar to 4e, and the monsters have roles like in 4e (not exactly the same list, and they aren't sorted that way, but at the book of the book it says what roles the monsters fill). Comparing monsters at similar CRs yields comparable numbers. Things tend to be a bit higher for 4e monsters in low levels, and a bit lower at high levels. So I don't need the "how to do it" but I could use the "what to do it with".

So!

What 4e monster manual would you recommend? I'm looking for a monster manual with cool unique monsters, and I'm looking for straight monsters as opposed to things with class levels.

The big named monsters aren't important to me, I already have beholders and illithids and aboleths and githyanki.

I'm looking for fun encounter monsters. Either the "with mooks" types, or the big single badasses. I want novel and interesting things besides just big bruisers as well.

Suggestions? Let me know which monster manuals you like, and some particularly memorable monsters from them. Bonus points if the monster isnt just an altered 3e monster or has amazing artwork.

 

[LuckyAdrastus]

Well, in 4e, no monsters have class levels, since only PCs get those now, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Each MM is an improvement on the earlier one, since each uses better monstercraft. MM1 minions are too weak, solos and too slow and grindy, and monster in general don't do enough damage.

MM2 introduces much better solo monster, somewhat better minions, and better thought out monsters overall.

MM3 is really strong, with a re-designed statblock, more flavor text, and much better mechanics, especially for minions and the catastrophic dragons, which are just plain old rad.

MM1 has the advantage of having lots of iconic monsters presented the first time around (in this edition). So it gives you your basic kobolds (in 4e, where they can fill all the roles), goblins, orcs, etc. The later books tend to involve odder variations of existing monsters (e.g. catastrophic dragons), and odder one-off type monsters like Banderbhobs (sp?).

 

[I'm A Banana]

Get MM3.

MM's 1-2 mostly have versions of stuff you've already got in the Pathfinder Bestiary. The new stuff the books add are pretty meh.

Alternately, get the Dark Sun monster book. I hear that's stellar.

 

[Vaeron]

MM3 uses the new stat blocks and has the updated damage in it.

MM1 is pretty much obsolete, still usable but it's no longer in line with the rest of 4e.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

Get MM3. It has much more in the way of lore and fluff to help you transplant the monster to a different system and campaign.

 

[Gort]

Monster manual 3 is best.

 

[Aegeri]

I would get MM3 and Demonomicon myself. Both use the new maths and are fantastic books. I would also get the Dark Sun creature catalog, which is equally good and has some excellent monsters.

 

[Sylrae]

I'm hearing alot of "MM3 is the one you want".

Someone mentioned the Dark Sun MM.

I'm familiar with dark sun in 2e, and I read the update for it to 3e in dragon magazine.

Whats the Dark Sun Monster Manual like?

Could people give me some ideas of the really cool encounter monsters for solos or non-0solo encounters in MM3 and in the DSMM?

How about new demons/devils. My memory says those can be some of the most fun fights.

@Gort: I like Darken alot. It's the reason I sell alchemical sunglasses that cancel out light blindness/sensitivity (for drow and other races. Komiyan amuses me. I like the scene in the tavern where he keeps being compared to drizzt then he stabs the guy. I laughed alot over that one.)

I just got a really funny idea for the BBEBG of my next campaign. Your comic made me think of goblins, made me think of character classes on really weak monsters, made me realize my next BBEG has to be a kobold or goblin (one who escapes from the party in an early mission).

 

[Aegeri]

I am still digesting the DSCC but I can comment on MM3. MM3 has really good monsters across all three tiers. It's only true "fail" with regards to monster design are Jackalweres. This is because they just have an insanely high damage combination that can one shot heroic PCs like candy (26+2d4 damage at level 3 on a coup de grace, with a level 4 creature that can inflict unconscious. Uh-huh).

Otherwise the design of MM3 monsters is excellent. There are numerous great solos in the book, Lolth, Allabah and Imix for example. The catastrophic dragons have fascinating mechanics and they are elites so can be incorporated into a wide variety of encounters very easily. Lots of "regular" monsters, especially filling in the dearth of normal monsters in epic tier (this is also why I recommend Demonomicon, which adds a lot of non-solo/non-elite epic tier monsters). Forsaken are excellent epic tier threats as are Tulgar.

Lots of fantastic mechanically orientated monsters, like Nymphs and the Oblivion Moss. The Kraken is a great "upper heroic" solo encounter that will really give PCs a run for their money and the astral Kraken is even more ferocious.

I actually cannot write enough praise for the fluff, mechanics and quality of MM3 creatures. It has one of my favourite ever minions, the Serpent of Nihal that actually completely prevents itself from being trivially one shot out of an encounter (just excellent power design, like many creatures). The epic star spawn are fantastic monsters as well and so on.

I just cannot recommend the book enough. It easily shames the previous two monster manuals in terms of awesome mechanics and design, with good quality fluff supporting all their monsters!

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

If the OP is using the beasties for Pathfinder, I'm not sure that the mechanical innovations for 4E really matter that much, so I'll say this - most of them have already appeared in one of the 5 3rd edition MM's or the Feind Folio, or Monsters of Faerun, or the Draconomicon/Lords of Madness/Hells/Abyss/Graves and the various world books. Those are easily acquired cheaply online and at used book stores and are more mechanically compatible with the game you're playing.

Besides those the Creture Collections from Sword and Sorcery that were made for 3E have some pretty cool things in them and are also inexpensive and easy to find.

The ongoing improvements for the 4E monster books are more mechanical in nature than coolnees or theme, and there's not an easy level range breakdown or campaign world breakdown for them so it's hard to say which is better for your purposes. The 4E MM1 is easy to pick up on ebay so you might start with that and see how it works for you.