D&D 4E 4e Monster List - Dwarven Nosepicker & Elven Butt Scratcher

[Wormwood]

Actually, that is a deeply flawed comparison and if that was all you were capable of getting out of 3E then it is no wonder you had issues.

The 4e Kobold entry is more versatile than it's 3e counterpart.

I may have been capable of hand customizing the 3e Kobold from it's boring default settings into an interesting challenge. I simply lacked the desire to do so.

 

[Lizard]

Is this the game to play, or the book to read, we're talking about again?

The game to play.

Some people consider building custom monsters a chore; I consider it fun.

 

[Kaisoku]

Here's my concern...

Monsters are statted out as encounters, with all their "role" trimmings already built in.

They've said that the Gnome (and others, possibly Warforged, etc), are going to be included in the Monster Manual "so you can still play a Gnome", etc.


So... you can play a Gnome as long as you are okay with the built-in abilities for the intended role they've been given? Will they give the base stats in the Monster Manual for the Gnome (and others) like a Dwarf will... but then why not just have the blurb on "other races" in the PH? Or will there just be a Gnome Trickster (and whatnot) like there is a Dwarf Warlord and DMs will have to use the DMG to come up with a base race for Gnomes on their own?

I picked Gnomes, but it can be any (normally) monster race really. Orcs, goblins, Thri-kreen, Half-Giants, etc.


This disturbs me on a certain level, because now it will be harder to run a campaign that includes non-standard races. Maybe not everyone wants to play as a Goblin or Orc or Gnome or Warforged.. but I personally have run or played in homebrew games with all of those, and there's Eberron as well.

I'm just getting this feeling that the designers are building a game that assumes you only play the "PCs" they want you to, and the rest of the game isn't really being built around more expansion from that. The "video game feel" as it were.
Well.. unless they expand upon it later with their own new book for it.


I mean.. I know that they are supposed to be giving rules for building your own things, but I thought the game was also trying to make less work for the DM. Or rather, do things that are important for the DM to run his world, rather than leave it up to each one to carve up on their own.

Making a base race, without a specific role, is indeed one of the hardest things (compared to making a monster with a role and gimmick). I'd rather the professionals made this for us, than have to rebuild it ourselves.

But maybe I have it wrong. Maybe it's not "the tools to run a world" but rather "to run a game".


I'm keen on the idea of having a base race statted out, with blocks of modified stats (shortened to reduce repetitious info) ready-made for DMs to toss into their game. Wouldn't that be best of both worlds?
The fact that they haven't moved towards this makes me feel it's gravitating towards a more simple "video game" feel, rather than living world feel like I've had with 3e.

I know 3e had/has it's own issues... however it's feeling like the proverbial "cutting off the arm to cure a scratch".

 

[hong]

I'll be interested to see how this does over time.

When you have 10 different set goblins and 10 different set orcs and you find that 7 of the orcs are just orc versions of 7 of the goblins, and you are on your 10th encounter, the shiny could start to wear off real quick.

And the important distinguishing mark between an orc with a scimitar and a goblin with a scimitar is...?

I'm glad some people are seeing what they need.

I'll take build to fit over a stamp machine any day.

There is a difference?

 

[hong]

The game to play.

No, no. You mean the book to read.

Some people consider building custom monsters a chore; I consider it fun.

IOW, "the book to read". Whereas I consider building custom monsters, that will be used, to be fun.

 

[Wormwood]

Some people consider building custom monsters a chore; I consider it fun.

As an optimist, I am hoping that both styles will be accommodated in 4e.

 

[The Little Raven]

I may have been capable of hand customizing the 3e Kobold from it's boring default settings into an interesting challenge. I simply lacked the desire to do so.

And 4e will allow you to hand customize different kinds of kobolds as well, so 3e has no advantage in this arena at all.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Kaisoku I don't think you need to worry since the Playable Monster Races are going to have their own section for a basic PC-writeup, so the roles/specific monster types in the rest of the MM. Won't affect the PC writeup, now things common to all the monsters of that race probably will be in the PC.

 

[The Little Raven]

Here's my concern...

Sounds like you didn't hear about the "Monsters as PCs" appendix that gives you racial write-ups for particularly popular "player monsters," of which the gnome is one. So, no reverse-engineering the stat block or anything like that. It will be written up similar to the elf (but with less detail, due to space and such).

 

[hong]

As an optimist, I am hoping that both styles will be accommodated in 4e.

As someone who made enough monsters for a campaign to populate a thread, I'll be very, very happy never have to see such bloated statblocks as those ever again.