D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Henry]

To top it all off, the 4E stat-blocks read like minis cards, not a true stat-block for a villian. It just screams "This is a miniatures war game! Play something else if you want an RPG!"

Actually, the 4E stat block looks a lot like old 2E stat blocks. This block came from a major villain in an old 2nd edition poduct, the Draconomicon:

Ganafar, the Wyrm-Priest: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 18, Cha 14; AC -3 (chain mail +1, shield +1, cloak of displacement); MV 9; C7; hp 57; #AT 1; THAC0 14; Dmg 1d6+4/2d4+3 (flail +2 and Str bonus) or spell; ML Fanatic (18); AL LE; SA/SD spells, magical
items;

Spells: bless, combine, purify food and drink, command (x2), fire trap, heat metal, know alignment, resist cold, spiritual hammer, prayer, protection from fire, pyrotechnics, protection from good 10’ radius, spell immunity

Ganafar has a scroll with a flame strike spell, a flask with two applications of oil of impact (adds +1 bonus to attack roll, +4 damage, -1 THAC0 to stats above), a cloak of displacement, a brooch of shielding with 53 hp left, and a magical amulet that enables him the effect of a find the path spell through areas within the temple covered by guards and wards. This only functions for a worshiper of the wyrm, however.

To me, the pithiness of a stat block is not a determiner of how interesting a villain it is; but 3E has us gamers trained to think in that light. If there's one thing I have found favorable in 4E, it's how much more efficient and direct the NPC/monster stat blocks have been.

 

[HeinorNY]

3.5 creatures, particularly outsiders, dragons, and powerful undead have many interesting ways of giving the PC's a hard time. Potent spell-like abilities,

"Potent"? You mean, the same spells every wizard in the world knows?

level drain, ability damage. These things make PC's shiver in their boots, and rightly so. PC's should be afraid of these creatures.

Those abilites really scare the crap out of the players too, since they are the ultimate combat-stoppers, AKA fun-stoppers.

If the scariest thing a devil does to you is an attack that does as much damage as a sickly pig farmer with a butter knife, and pushes you back five feet, why should your 21st level fighter be afraid of him and his ten buddies?

He should be afraid because if succubus can kiss him and dominate him, turning him into her puppet, forever.
The war devil can reach the guy that's safe behind the defenders and throw him into the middle of a bunch of hungry devils and then use a minor action to let the devil attack the PC immediately.

 

[pawsplay]

Sure, but the spirit of the power is clearly more. Besides, which is more enjoyable? "Oh I guess I move back two squares!" or "My lady! I will defend you! blah blah blah...."

I mean, I guess I wouldn't punish a player for this kind of pedantic anti-funnery, but I'd give him a disappointed and disapproving look that would so shame him he'd be unable to game ever again.

I'm all for roleplaying, but I would seriously laugh at that response. It would be very simple to describe the charm as something like that, and they chose not to. I assume that it was written with the same care as Command, Featherfall, and Mend. Maybe it's a charm so weak the ONLY thing it can do is make you fear for the life of the succubus. Or at least say, "My goodness, I can't watch," and leave the room.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Don't people typically complain monsters and the PoL setting (or any setting?) Allowing "commoners" to take down a high level monster, albeit with great casualties, is refreshing, IMO.

Monsters are the reason characters who aren't "commoners" exist, where else do the NPCs PCs associate come from? They aren't getting levels from surpassing the challenges of farming. Monsters just mean the masses need protection, from I guess heroes, who generally have some levels that don't have I roll around in crap to make a living as their archetype. Because the PCs aren't the only characters of equivalent power in the setting.

Also, it's now a 30 level scale. A 9 level difference is more akin to a 6 level difference now.

Go back to the announcement, at first they specifically said a level 20 PC in 4e would be more powerful than in 3e. I'm not seeing it, they didn't have to compress the power curve, it was part of their attempt to expand the sweet spot. They could have just kept it where it was and extended for the last 10 levels but they didn't, and now they're specifically putting lvl30 as an end-game. Color me unimpressed.

 

[Victim]

I don't see how the ability of the kissed target renders the effect worthless - it's not the succubus can't move next to him again on her turn. It requires some timing for effective use, sure. But how is that any different from the other special abilities devils have? The whole stab the PC and toss them into a crowd of minions trick doesn't work nearly as well if the PC goes right after being tossed.

 

[mmu1]

I'd sincerely rather do that than dole out a bunch of skill points to some advanced or classed devils.

...your 3.5 books came with a guy who'd hold a gun to your head, forcing you to do that?

The skills either matter or they don't, depending on how you're going to use the monster/NPC. If they do matter, then it's an advantage to have a rule for assigning them, rather than pulling numbers out of the air. If not, you can ignore them and it won't make the slightest practical difference.

So enough of this "My marriage fell apart, I lost my job, and now I live in a cardboard box because 3.5 made me assign skill points!" crap.

It's not like the 4E designers will magically solve all your problems for you. If you want something different than what's in the MM, you'll have to tweak some numbers.

 

[pawsplay]

Most of that skill point crap can be solved by deciding that 90% of your NPCs max out a number of class skill= base skill points + Int bonus.

 

[DandD]

The good thing about 4th edition, the numbers aren't pulled out of the air, and they're easier to calculate, so that you won't have to waste time stating classed or advanced monsters, but can rather spend time for an enjoyable fight.
Oh yeah, and D&D 3.5 wanted to mug me, but I hid successfully in the shadows.

 

[HeinorNY]

Most of that skill point crap can be solved by deciding that 90% of your NPCs max out a number of class skill= base skill points + Int bonus.

I'm so happy they threw away all the skill point crap.
More time to design cool interesting encounters and less time to waste handling crap.

 

[hong]

The skills either matter or they don't, depending on how you're going to use the monster/NPC. If they do matter, then it's an advantage to have a rule for assigning them, rather than pulling numbers out of the air.

Untrained skill = (stat bonus) + (level/2)
Trained skill = untrained skill + 5

So much easier, don't you think?

If not, you can ignore them and it won't make the slightest practical difference.

Why are you paying for rules that you're going to ignore?

It's not like the 4E designers will magically solve all your problems for you. If you want something different than what's in the MM, you'll have to tweak some numbers.

And from all indications thus far, it'll be a hell of a lot easier than in 3E.

Well, assuming you don't ignore the rules.