D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[hong]

War devil - what's up with the ongoing damage?

I'm getting a little frustrated by entries that talk about 'ongoing damage' when there is no indication what its about.

The war devil has this



So what does this ongoing damage represent? Does it suggest that the war devil is twisting the trident in the wound? But that wouldn't gibe with the Trident getting 'recharged' and able to use on someone else, so it must be something else... but what?

How can a DM explain what is happening without some kind of extra descriptive hint here? When you tell the player he takes 5 ongoing damage, and they say "from what?", what do you say?

It would have made more sense to me if it had been 5 ongoing damage (save ends or devil chooses to end it), and (recharge when nobody is suffering ongoing damage from it);

That gives the clear sense that the war devil has impaled you with the trident and is giving it a good twisting (and in the meantime might be using his claw), but if he wants to zap someone else with it he has to release you from its tines (or you make your save and wiggle free from the tines and so he is free to use it again).

Regards

For this particular case, I figure it's just magical Nine Hells mojo.

 

[Lacyon]

So what does this ongoing damage represent? Does it suggest that the war devil is twisting the trident in the wound? But that wouldn't gibe with the Trident getting 'recharged' and able to use on someone else, so it must be something else... but what?

Presumably bleeding. Alternatively, infernal power of woundingness.

 

[D.Shaffer]

War devil - what's up with the ongoing damage?

I'm getting a little frustrated by entries that talk about 'ongoing damage' when there is no indication what its about.

So what does this ongoing damage represent?

This might seem to be aggressive, but keep in mind it's not meant to be insulting.

You're the DM. It's your JOB as DM to make up the fancy little artistic flourishes that liven up the player's day...so make it up. Maybe it's ongoing bleeding. Maybe it's him leaving the Trident impaled in your body. Maybe it's Devil Magic eating away you life force. Use whatever works best for the situation and enhances the description. Does every damage description really need to be spelled out in utmost detail?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This might seem to be aggressive, but keep in mind it's not meant to be insulting.

You're the DM. It's your JOB as DM to make up the fancy little artistic flourishes that liven up the player's day...so make it up. Maybe it's ongoing bleeding. Maybe it's him leaving the Trident impaled in your body. Maybe it's Devil Magic eating away you life force. Use whatever works best for the situation and enhances the description. Does every damage description really need to be spelled out in utmost detail?

Well, I think it's always nice to give some possible fluff, as long as I am not required to use it all the time. Maybe naming the Trident attack "Infernal Trident" would be enough to change the feeling. But then, I didn't mind the idea of "Golden Wyvern Adepts"...

 

[occam]

War devil - what's up with the ongoing damage?

So what does this ongoing damage represent? Does it suggest that the war devil is twisting the trident in the wound? But that wouldn't gibe with the Trident getting 'recharged' and able to use on someone else, so it must be something else... but what?

How can a DM explain what is happening without some kind of extra descriptive hint here? When you tell the player he takes 5 ongoing damage, and they say "from what?", what do you say?

This really bugged me, too, and I was about to post a question almost exactly like yours, until I looked at the 3e version of this monster (the horned devil/cornugon) and saw this:

Infernal Wound (Su)
The damage a horned devil deals with its tail attack causes a persistent wound. An injured creature loses 2 additional hit points each round.

I'm guessing that's what it is, but I do wish they had said something about this in the stat block.

 

[mmu1]

What I really don't like about the whole Trident bit is the fact that it has three different effects (damage, involuntary movement, knockdown) and not only are they all determined by a single roll (which I don't agree with in principle, but whatever, it's the whole simplicity thing, I can understand the thought behind it, I guess), but there isn't even a size restriction of any kind on it.

If you can hit the AC, you flip it over with the pitchfork, no matter whether it's a human or a gigantic dragon. It's a total abstraction. (like the undefined continual damage) Hooray for exception-based design.

 

[Derren]

Wouldn't a group of multiple Succubi be a very though, or even TPK encounter?
A normal 9th level can contain 5 level 9 normal monsters, so a group of 5 Succubi would be ok by the rules. Also the attack of the domination ability from them is quite high which means they have a good chance of succeeding with domination each round.
That means it is rather likely that the Succubi can dominate the whole party and let them fight each other and depending on how domination is worded the group has nearly no chance to act between two domination attempts.
Thats sounds a little bit broken.

 

[Lacyon]

Wouldn't a group of multiple Succubi be a very though, or even TPK encounter?
A normal 9th level can contain 5 level 9 normal monsters, so a group of 5 Succubi would be ok by the rules. Also the attack of the domination ability from them is quite high which means they have a good chance of succeeding with domination each round.
That means it is rather likely that the Succubi can dominate the whole party and let them fight each other and depending on how domination is worded the group has nearly no chance to act between two domination attempts.
Thats sounds a little bit broken.

The chance of 5 out of 5 domination attacks hitting for 5 consecutive rounds seems more than a little slim.

 

[Derren]

The chance of 5 out of 5 domination attacks hitting for 5 consecutive rounds seems more than a little slim.

The chance that 0 out of 5 domination attempts work is equally small, if not smaller. And the 1 or 2 PCs which can act once every 5 rounds probably won't pose much of a threat to the Succubi, especially if they are flying.
When you rule that domination doesn't break Charming Kiss the Succubi could also kiss every PC and position them in a way that no matter who the PC who resists domination attacks, a other PC interposes himself.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

What really confuses me about Charming Kiss is that the attack roll vs. AC does nothing, merely allows the succubus to attempt to the secondary attack. The primary attack doesn't have any kind of damage component, nor does it seem to have some kind of keyword (detailed somewhere else) that tells us X happens. Having to make two attack rolls significantly reduces the changes of this ability hitting.

The fact that there is a secondary attack at all makes me think that the primary attack does something that we don't know about. If it doesn't, it would seem that one of her main abilities is rather tough to pull off, and very situational when it does happen. But the stat block is really unclear about all that.