(4e) New to Skill Challenges - looking for help/advice

[Feeroper]

Hey everyone. I am a new DM, about to set up a couple skill challenges for my players (the game is this weekend) I have never set up a SC before so I wondered if anyone could give me advice or help on how to approach this:

SC#1: The player characters are accused of a crime they are not guilty of (the town guard has confronted them), but the town guard is already bogged down enough, so the captain of the guard listens to their defense, and depending on how convinced he is, they are either let go so he can deal with other problems, or they are placed under arrest and must then escape from prison and hide form the law officials while in town.

SC#2: A local Noble has detailed info on a location the PCs are looking for, but he does not know the PCs, and is a little stuck up and will not easily give out info. I figured that if the PCs had been in prison and had to make an escape (through a sewer system) that they would be smelly and dirty, making the noble even less impressed with them. If they succeed this SC he gives them a map detailing a safe route to the locaton. If they fail, he will begrudgingly give them the location, but verbally only, and it is up to the PCs to find their own path (which will lead to a combat encounter as it is a dangerous area).

How do those ideas sound? How would you turn it into a SC? Its probobly really easy, Im just unsure of myself as Ive not done one yet. Thanks!

 

[Piratecat]

Slightly unrelated, I wrote a piece on skill challenges. Swing by post #434 in this thread.

 

[Ktulu]

Those both look like good ideas and are both mostly social challenges. As such, diplomacy, bluff, insight, history would probably be primary, with intimidate or another knowledge (dungeoneering, nature, etc..) as secondary.

In such a case as the "am I guilty or not" scenario, I would put heavy emphasis on the player's side. Unless someone is out to frame them, they should be reasonably able to talk themselves out of the situation.


The second one, however, looks to be a great example of the negotation skill challenge right out of DMG. I'd steal the whole line, customize each option for yourself (add a -2 modifier for being stinky and such, but remove the modifier after 2 successes, showing the party is succeeding despite their lack of cleanliness).

Also, here's a great little page a guy did up detailing a lot of nice ways to build a skill challenge:

http://athistaur.de/DnD/skill/Homebrew_SkillC.htm

I've found this to be quite helpful, myself.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

For both skill challenges, I think the key is to avoid a boring succession of Diplomacy checks. Applying some of the advice from Mike Mearls's column on skill challenges, I suggest giving the players multiple concrete obstacles to overcome within each challenge. For the first challenge, the PCs might refute individual charges or details of the crime, or they might provide alibis or other reasons supporting their innocence. For the second challenge, the obstacles are all the reasons the noble won't share all his information.

Also, you might consider letting each skill challenge grow beyond just the conversations you mentioned with the town guard and the noble. Perhaps the first half of each challenge involves the PCs investigating the crime on their own or learning more about the noble from other sources.

Good luck!

 

[Feeroper]

I just had an idea. What if the 1st Skill Challenge involving the PCs being accused of a crime, it starts out as an interrogation, and then the next phase could be an escape attemp, running through the city, so they coud us things like streetwise, acrobatics (climbing buildings for example) Athletics against that guard that has them cornered. That way it would be more than just a social encounter.

for Skill Challenge 2, I was thinking of having an informant who sends the PCs to the noble, advise them of his love for magic although he cannot wield it, so he is dazzled by magic tricks, or arcane history, as well as the usual diplomacy, insight etc.. I think I may copy most of that one right from the DMG (the main example they gave)

 

[FireLance]

This is how I run skill challenges, from a previous thread on the subject:

Step One: Ensure that the players have an objective. This could be one that they came up with themselves, e.g. "We want to interrogate the hobgoblin", one that you hint at, e.g. "As you kill the last kobold, you hear a menacing growl. You realize that the bear that the kobolds had been keeping prisoner has escaped" (the PCs may either fight the bear or attempt a skill challenge to calm it down), or one that you state explicitly, e.g. "How will you persuade the Duke to agree to your proposal?"

Step Two: Ask each player what he wants his PC to do to help achieve the objective.

Step Three: Translate what the players say into a skill check, e.g. "I threaten the hobgoblin" could be an Intimidate check. "I speak soothingly to the bear" could be a Nature check. "I try to get a sense of the Duke's current mood" could be an Insight check.

Step Four: Decide whether what the player proposes to do will contribute towards the objective. If it seems reasonable, make it a Moderate skill check. If it seems unlikely or counter-productive, make it a Hard check or even an automatic failure. If it seems very effective, make it an Easy check or even an automatic success. For example, a Heal check to treat the bear's injuries might require a Moderate skill check. A cleric using healing word on the bear might be an automatic success, but making loud noises to scare the bear off might be a Hard Intimidate check or even an automatic failure.

Step Five: Have the players make their skill checks and narrate the results. If the check is successful, convey a sense of progress towards achieving the objective. If the check is unsuccessful, describe what setbacks have occured. If the skill challenge is not over, go back to Step Two.​

That said, if you have some time to prepare, you could anticipate some likely approaches that the PCs can take and decide how you will handle them. One way to do this is to go through the skill list and decide how each skill might be useful to the PCs.

For the first challenge, for example, the most obviously useful skills are Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate. Perhaps you could decide on the following:

Diplomacy: The PCs earn one success if a character succeeds on a Moderate Diplomacy check.

Bluff: The PCs earn one success if a character succeeds on a Moderate Bluff check. Each failed Bluff check imposes a -2 penalty on subsequent Diplomacy and Bluff checks as the Captain gets more and more suspicious of the PCs.

Intimidate: The Captain is not easily intimidated. The PCs earn one success if a character succeeds on a Hard Intimidate check. Each failed Intimidate check imposes a -2 penalty on subsequent Diplomacy and Bluff checks as the Captain gets more and more suspicious of the PCs.​

Because the Captain has other problems to deal with, you can introduce a "ticking clock" effect that encourages the PCs to obtain as many successes as quickly as possible. In this case, you could have the Captain slowly lose patience, which imposes a cumulative -2 penalty to Bluff and Diplomacy checks for each "round" of the skill challenge starting from the third "round". This creates a small cost to the PCs for using skills for which a failed skill check does not count as a failure for the purpose of the skill challenge (such as Perception, Streetwise, Insight, Religion and History, below).

In addition, the PCs may be able to do other things or use other skills to help them in the challenge:

Perception: If the PCs are at the scene of the crime, they may be able to discover evidence that implies they are not guilty. The PCs may earn one success if a character succeeds on a Moderate Perception check. The PCs may earn a second success if a character succeeds on a Hard Perception check. The PCs may earn at most two successes from the use of Perception. A failed Perception check does not result in a failure for the purpose of the skill challenge.

Streetwise: If the PCs have the opportunity to use this skill, they may be able to uncover or recall rumors of who the guilty party actually is. The PCs may earn one success if a character succeeds on a Moderate Streetwise check. The PCs may earn a second success if a character succeeds on a Hard Streetwise check. The PCs may earn at most two successes from the use of Streetwise. A failed Streetwise check does not result in a failure for the purpose of the skill challenge.

Insight: If a character succeeds on a Moderate Insight check, the PCs gain a +2 bonus on all subsequent Bluff, Diplomacy or Intimidate checks with the Captain. In addition, they discover that the Captain is not easily intimidated, respects servants of Lawful Good deities, and will get impatient if the matter is not resolved quickly. A failed Insight check does not result in a failure for the purpose of the skill challenge.

Religion: A Lawful Good character may attempt a Moderate Religion check to convince the Captain that he would not have committed the crime (if the character is not actually Lawful Good, this is considered a use of the Bluff skill instead). If the character is a cleric, a paladin or another character with the Divine power source, it is an Easy Religion check instead. If the character succeeds on the check, the PCs earn one success and the character (only) gains a +2 bonus on all subsequent Bluff and Diplomacy checks with the Captain. The PCs may earn only one success from the use of Religion. A failed Religion check does not result in a failure for the purpose of the skill challenge.

History: A character may attempt a History check to see if he can recall a loophole in the law which suggests that the Captain should let them go. The PCs may earn one success if the character succeeds on a Hard History check. The PCs may earn only one success from the use of History. A failed History check does not result in a failure for the purpose of the skill challenge.​

Failing this first skill challenge could trigger the escape skill challenge. For this one, as you have suggested, Streetwise, Athletics, and Acrobatics could be useful, as could Endurance (simply running very fast for a long period of time) and Stealth (to hide). Perception could be used to spot a good place to hide or a good route to take, Insight could be used to figure out where the guards are likely to search, and Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate could be used to obtain help from other people. The PCs may also be able to use movement powers and other utility powers to gain bonuses or automatic successes to their checks (an eladrin might fey step past an obstacle, for example).

If the PCs fail the escape challenge, in addition to imposing a penalty to Diplomacy checks for the negotiation with the noble, you could have it count as an automatic failure. On the other hand, if the noble is fascinated with magic, consider allowing bonuses to Diplomacy checks if the PCs use Arcane spells (especially if they do so in an entertaining manner) or automatic successes for the use of daily Arcane powers.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I just use the Obsidian Skill Challenge system. You should check it out. I would a link to it if I remember where it was...

 

[Feeroper]

I definatly like the ticking clock idea with the captain of the town guard becomming more and more impatient.

 

[Frostmarrow]

You can check this out for ideas: http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/234938-opposed-skill-challenges.html

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Hey everyone. I am a new DM, about to set up a couple skill challenges for my players (the game is this weekend) I have never set up a SC before so I wondered if anyone could give me advice or help on how to approach this:

SC#1: The player characters are accused of a crime they are not guilty of (the town guard has confronted them), but the town guard is already bogged down enough, so the captain of the guard listens to their defense, and depending on how convinced he is, they are either let go so he can deal with other problems, or they are placed under arrest and must then escape from prison and hide form the law officials while in town.

These seem to be two challenges, in fact, the second only happening if the first fails.

"Interrogation":
The guards state the accusation and ask questions. You might want to prepare some of the possible questions they might ask to create a natural flow of the interrogation. When the PCs choose an answer to a question, figure out the most appropriate skill. Note that the Captain and his guards will want answers from everyone, so each PC will have to make a check by default. Some ideas:

Interrogation
Complexity 2 (6 successes before 3 failures)
Insight (Moderate DC): The PCs try to read the situation. On a success, it becomes clear that the Captain really wants to get over with this, and they should hurry. This grants no more than one success. Alternatively, hey can also read the direction they need to take the interrogation, granting them a +2 bonus to their next Diplomacy or Bluff check.
Bluff (Moderate DC): The PC tells a lie. Can be used to gain up to 4 successes.
Diplomacy (Moderate DC): The PC tries to clarify the situation and put their actions in a better light. Can be used to gain up to 4 successes.
Diplomacy (Hard DC): A PC can attempt to answer for another PC. This can grant up to one success but any number of failures. The Guard Captain doesn't generally like it if someone else then the asked person answers, but he likes to know who is in charge. (The PCs will use this option if one of them is really terribly bad at social skills compared to them.)
Streetwise (Moderate DC): A PC can bring up a witness or someone that would vouch for them. Can grant up to two successes. The guard captain really doesn't have the time or inclination to verify this, but he will keep a "mental note".
Failure: The Captain decides to take the PCs prisoner. They can decide to run now or escape the prison later, which will open up a new challenge. (No XP gained for failure.)
Success: The Captain is convinced enough to let them go.

I think the DMG does have an example on a chase, that should be re-usable, probably as a Complexity 1 challenge.

Escaping the Prison (Complexity 1)
My basic assumption would be that escaping the prison is not a Prison Break (TV show) scenario, but more a "create a momentary diversion and run."
Intimidate (Moderate): Force another prisoner to help you in your plan. Can be used to gain up two two successes. (But no more than prisoners available.) The PCs can keep using this skill to get more prisoners on their side, which might be helpful later on.
Diplomacy (Hard): Convince another prisoner to help you in your plan (and not sell you out.). Can be used to gain up to two successes. (But no more than prisoners available.) The PCs can keep using this skill to get more prisoners on their side, which might be helpful later on. It is harder to "diplomance" the prisoners, since they are distrustful of each other and everyone is looking out for himself. Succeeding on a check grants you a +2 bonus to your next Diplomacy or Intimidate check, too.
You might also allow this skill to be used on a guard.
Streetwise (Easy): Recall details of the prison guard and the prisoners to anticipate possible reactions. Can be used to gain no more than 1 success.
History (Moderate): Recall "famous prison breaks". The DM might use a succesful check to give clueless players a tip, too. Can be used to gain no more than 1 success.
Bluff (Moderate): Trick the guards, maybe by someone pretending to be ill, offering some rewards, claiming that you have some vital information. Can be used to gain up to 4 successes. On a failure, any further check worsens by 2 points.
Thievery (Hard): Manipulate the lock. Can be used to gain up to 3 successes. The lock is open on the 3rd success, but the PCs still need a distraction.
Success: The players overpower a guard or convince him to help them, and can go on with the Case scenario.
Failure: The cell door is open, but it's chaos - the guards are alert, the prisoners are fighting amongst each other. Pick an easy encounter (XP value equal or less than the challenge) against the PCs, possibly with one "normal" creature and a lot of Minions for extra guard forces. Any intimidated or befriended prisoners add one Minion (Human Rabble?) to the side of the PCs.
After the combat is concluded, the chase challenge begins.

Note that the prison break, the possible prison fight, and the chase (and any ensuing combat due to failures there) should all be considered "1 encounter", meaning the PCs do not regain encounter powers nor can they freely spend healing surges, so the encounter overall will be harder than it normally would be.

SC#2: A local Noble has detailed info on a location the PCs are looking for, but he does not know the PCs, and is a little stuck up and will not easily give out info. I figured that if the PCs had been in prison and had to make an escape (through a sewer system) that they would be smelly and dirty, making the noble even less impressed with them. If they succeed this SC he gives them a map detailing a safe route to the locaton. If they fail, he will begrudgingly give them the location, but verbally only, and it is up to the PCs to find their own path (which will lead to a combat encounter as it is a dangerous area).

I would make the Diplomacy DCs either harder or apply a penalty to them if they had to run from the prison. Intimidate attempts wouldn't get any harder for the PCs being dirty. You might allow a lot of "Insight" uses in this scenarios - the Noble doesn't forgive slights easily, and it is important to understand what makes him tick before asking him anything.