D&D 4E 4E Sample Combat: The Terrasque

[Korgoth]

Actually it's right on. Tarrasque is a 95,000 XP Solo Brute. 4 PCs at level 30 are only budgeted 76,000 XP. 5 PCs bumps it to an equal challenge at 95,000 XP.

The given example has the Big T versus 5 level 30 characters. This is an equal challenge... and by equal we mean "the party probably won't lose anybody", right? A tough encounter is supposed to be 150% XP, I thought.

 

[Surgoshan]

Failing 5 saves in a row, when you just need a 7 to save, is a fluke - it's a 0.53% chance of that happening. Not that it doesn't happen, of course, flukes happen, but it was a fluke.

He didn't fail five in a row, though. He succeeded the first time, then got hit with a separate stun power. Then he succeeded on his second save and the rogue stepped in and said "No, you fail".

Then he failed three in a row. I think my feelings mirrored what PCs would have felt. The first failure was met with a mixture of surprise and schadenfreude. The second was schadenfreude and "huh... things are getting kind of boring". The third was "Yeah, this is great and all, but it's definitely boring". When he finally succeeded, I thought "YES! He'll finally start tearing these guys a new one! A single new that stretches across all five PCs! ... Wait, will he live long enough?"

Three in a row is very unlikely. 2.7%

As for people getting hurt; yes, they did. The wizard did some 12d10 damage to himself, thus giving that same damage to the tarrasque. The warlock took 8d10 to give half of 30d10+72 (worth it!).

I'll be rerunning the combat tomorrow; I expect the tarrasque will do better and the party will be required to scramble more. Or maybe not; the tarrasque has a somewhat low initiative. However, the fact that the fighter needs a 12 or better to hit means that he'll have trouble marking, which means he'll have trouble protecting the squishies. If the tarrasque can get in the scrum and start using its rending bite and passing out ongoing damage... Basically, the battle could go very, very differently.

It's really the tarrasque's low will/reflex scores that let it get hit by abilities in the first place. That and some very odd rolls are what tilted the battle this time round.

 

[baberg]

The given example has the Big T versus 5 level 30 characters. This is an equal challenge... and by equal we mean "the party probably won't lose anybody", right? A tough encounter is supposed to be 150% XP, I thought.

Uh, yeah. That's what I get for not double-checking the original post. I thought it was only 4 PCs versus Big T. So yes, since the XP is the same this should be a "PCs win but have to use some of their resources" fight. So it's about right. As somebody else said, throw a few Elder Purple Wurms in there (24 solo soldier, 30,250 XP per) in there and see how the PCs do having to split up their damage.

 

[Victim]

The fighter doesn't need to hit to mark someone.

 

[Surgoshan]

Glory be! And I should have known that, because I think I read that paragraph a half dozen times today while figuring the fighter out.

 

[Serendipity]

Round 3
The tarrasque is at 670 HP and is bloodied. If it were to unstun, it would start kicking some ass.

*whistles* That's pretty impressive. (Another word for it would be gobsmacked.) Any screaming howling wtfing levels of confuzzlement on my part are stopped dead by the sample party being 30th bloody level.

So...yeah. Three rounds and the fight is definitely looking one sided. I wonder how a 20th level party would manage.

 

[Destil]

Nice fight, Surgoshan.

I'm not suprised. Really what needs to happen is a gauntlet of level 30+ encounter with no extended rests allowed, just to see how long the PCs can last. I'm not suprised the big T by himself isn't much of a challenge if you can just unload everything you've got.

The PCs didn't really take any damage, which is a shame because Elic can cast Mass Cure Minor Wounds 1/day (5 burst free healing surge +15ish), Divine Vigor 1/day (5 burst everyone gets their second wind back), Purify once/day (remove all effects that can be removed with a safe from all allies within 5 burst) and gets 3 healing words per encounter at surge+6d6+15ish. A few of his attacks heal allies in the area, too.

I really don't think these guys could be in any danger until their already low on healing surges...

 

[Lore Raithbone]

The disparity between Astral Storm and Meteor Shower make me sad. Astral Storm is just stupidly good; granted, the Tarrasque would have left the area if it were unstunned (which is the intent of the power, as far as I can tell), but since it only hits enemies your allies can move through it happily. Meteor Shower is just... terrible, for a level 29 daily.

 

[Mirtek]

Actually it's right on. Tarrasque is a 95,000 XP Solo Brute. 4 PCs at level 30 are only budgeted 76,000 XP. 5 PCs bumps it to an equal challenge at 95,000 XP.

But equal challenge means that it's supposed to be defeated without too much trouble. Just like an equal CR in 3.x is not supposed to be tough but merely something of which the PCs can handle a few before needing rest.

So if a party has not much trouble against an equal encounter, then this proves that the math behind the encounter was correct. If you want to put the party into peril you need an encounter that's not equal but above them

 

[Larrin]

*Shrug* any fight where the ONLY monster gets stunned for the duration is going to be a slaughter, it doesn't matter what level it is, but it does demonstrate that the players had to work fairly hard just to kill an immoblie mountain of hitpoints. If those hit points had started hitting back, i think we would have seen a lot more scrambling and turns used healing, the combat would have been extended several rounds at least, and the combat would have looked a lot less like a cake walk and more like a level 30 solo monster. Try running it again with the big T not sitting the whole thing out, and then see if its still and "easy" encounter, given the 3 consectutive fails and the tarrasque taking no actions this (while well done and interesting, i enjoyed it!) is more of a fluke report than a representation of a level 30 fight.....Unless all epic fights involve PC's stunning all combatants and hacking at their quivering forms....