D&D 4E 4e Special Ability PER Encounter stinks...

[Sun Knight]

Your example of the red dragon and his lair is pretty easy to break up. Think of it this (simplified) way; every time you roll initiative, it's a new encounter.

If you fight the minions and the lizardman, but the dragon doesn't attack immediately, it's a new encounter when he does. If you fight the minions, the lizardman, and the dragon all at once (good luck, heroes!) and the dragon doesn't retreat, it's the same encounter.

I see where you are going with that, and there is a logic to it, but I just don't agree. I see it as one long encounter with the lizard men minions attacking, with the dragon in the back prepping for his assault, then joining once the preparations are done, if any needed to be done.

Anyway, I think we have discussed this topic to death.

 

[Sun Knight]

I can't believe defining "encounter" is difficult.

Its not the definition of encounter we are debating but the length of that encounter in erms of how long does it take to replenish abilities and spells in this system. So far we have dealt with combat "encounters" but what about noncombat "encounters." How long are they suppose to be?

 

[Szatany]

So the fact that it says "x times per encounter" instead of "x times before you can rest for 1 minute" is what you are against?

I don't think abilities will be actually worded "per encounter" in PHB. They will have some other name to indicate that you need to rest for a moment to recharge them.

 

[Malhost Zormaeril]

so, all of you talking about combat or so it seems...but what about non-combat situations where there is no adrenalin...

say the paladin's detect evil...say useable 1/encounter...(formerly at will). he is moving through a ...yes you guess it... dungeon. now is each room an encounter...each area consisting of several rooms, the whole dungeon...an encounter at all (if not the poor paladin will never get to use this ability by just exploring around...)

and i didn't even liked the barbarian approach to rage/encounter in 3.5, although this ability is more easily solved because a combat encounter is more easily defined...

Just because there isn't combat it doesn't mean there is no adrenalin. But assuming there isn't, for as long as the characters are focused on doing stuff -- looking for traps, talking with a villain, have their attention glued onto something, then it's an encounter. As soon as they can zone out for a minute, they can reset their per-encounter abilities.

I'm pretty sure that's how it will go; we'll know for sure in May, though.

 

[Stone Dog]

Think of it this (simplified) way; every time you roll initiative, it's a new encounter.

That is a pretty good rule of thumb for it.

The comparisons to a scene might be apt, but sometimes there can be arguments in favor of having an encounter or two in the same scene.

I'm sure that 4e will have a pretty exact definition for when an encounter ends and I hope that "Initiative gets rolled" is one of the circumstances.

 

[Gentlegamer]

I think the idea is that parties may have to withdraw, or perhaps there will be lulls in combat on both sides to "recharge" the per encounter abilities, giving them opportunities for repartee or parley.

 

[Stone Dog]

Its not the definition of encounter we are debating but the length of that encounter in erms of how long does it take to replenish abilities and spells in this system. So far we have dealt with combat "encounters" but what about noncombat "encounters." How long are they suppose to be?

As for how long does it take to replenish abilities, that will have to wait for more teasers to come out. Per day powers like spells will probably still need 8 hours of rest. Per encounter abilities will probably need one minute of downtime (IE, not fighting, negotiating, interrogating, disarming, tracking or whatever) before they can be refreshed.

There will probably be higher level abilities to refresh powers even during an encounter. Possibly you can spend an action point or a specialized character can refresh a single power on a natural twenty with the right talent. There are a lot of options available here.

And combat encounters and noncombat encounters are probably going to be the same length. Just like in Fight Club, an encounter goes on for as long as it has to.

 

[Sun Knight]

I still rather deal with specific timeframes. :\

 

[Mouseferatu]

I still rather deal with specific timeframes. :\

I don't understand. You think

"I can use this ability once every 10 minutes"

makes more sense than

"I have to take a full minute of rest to recharge before I can use this ability again"?

In my mind, the latter makes far more sense, both in terms of gameplay and realism.

 

[Stone Dog]

I still rather deal with specific timeframes. :\

Probably not going to happen. 4e looks like it is moving away from arbitrarily specific time frames and is going towards arbitrarily specific recovery opportunities.