D&D 4E 4e Special Ability PER Encounter stinks...

[Asmor]

(What I wonder in the whole context of the proposed 25+ level of spells system: How many can a spellcaster actually prepare each day? One of each level? Two? Three? Couldn't this be to many spells in the end? Well, we will have to wait and see...)

I'm pretty sure they've at least strongly hinted, if not outright said, that the Vancian system is gone (ding dong, witch dead, etc, different post).

My guess is that it's going to be a spell-point system, and casters get so many spell points per level... A level 25 spell in that case is a spell you spend 25 spell points on.

Just a guess, of course.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I'm pretty sure they've at least strongly hinted, if not outright said, that the Vancian system is gone (ding dong, witch dead, etc, different post).

My guess is that it's going to be a spell-point system, and casters get so many spell points per level... A level 25 spell in that case is a spell you spend 25 spell points on.

No, they said it was "mostly gone". As in, you prepare only a small amount of spells in the Vancian method. My guess is that it will be a lot like how Warblades and Swordsages "prepare" their maneuvers. So, at 13th level, you'll be able to select 5 spells per day out of level 1 through 13th level spells that you know(not at EACH level, but 5 total amongst all your levels)

This limits the options you have to choose from so as not to give you too many options at high levels. It also puts even more focus on choosing the couple of really powerful spells you get.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

It seems you have prblems with resource management. My wizard goes through about 4 to 6 encounters on an adventure before he needs to rest to replenish his spells. Then again I use a crossbow.

So, your fix for the wizard's resource depletion problem is to avoid acting like a wizard?

 

[Raven Crowking]

So, your fix for the wizard's resource depletion problem is to avoid acting like a wizard?

I'm not at all certain that using a crossbow is avoiding acting like a wizard.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Fighting a Great Wyrm Red Dragon.

This sentence needs another verb.

 

[Imaro]

In all seriousness, it probably is.



Force slam is a 30' / 6 square cone. If the 1st-level Jedi, with an average UtF check of around +7 or so, beat the stormies' Fort Defense of 12, they do 4d6 damage (average 14) and knock them prone. If they fail, they do 2d6 damage (average 7) and do not knock the stormies prone.

Stormies have 10 HP.

This is certainly not an auto-kill situation.

You're also running a party with three Jedi who have spent their only discretionary feat (unless they're human) on Force Training.

Their ability to kill things is limited to 12 squares away (6 movement, 6 Force Slam) which is the same distanc a charging Jedi will cover, in which case the Jedi will be killing things with their lightsaber anyway. Stormies are perfectly designed to do a bit of damage to the PCs using either grenades or autofire attacks and then snuff it once the PCs target them.

If you don't want this to happen, start things out farther away and spread your stormtroopers out. Send more of them. Arm them with something a little more substantial. Put them on speeders.

... but realize, when it comes right down to it, that the purpose of heroic characters in the Star Wars univers, and especially Jedi, is to kill lots and lots of stormtroopers in tactically interesting environments.



... because if the stormtroopers get the drop on your PCs, they're all taking 15d8 damage (3d8 on autofire, missing, for 1.5d8 damage x 10 stormies).



It's also not possible to do unless you are a human.

First all jedi are going to take skill focus:UtF by 2nd level(unless they're human and take it at first), at that point an average jedi has a +12 to use the power. Also it's kind of strange to think a jedi wouldn't take force training...I mean you picked a jedi to get jedi powers right(this one is so a stretch I'm just going to leave it alone.)?

a lightsaber hits one opponent, requires a to hit roll and does less average damage...for my jedi it was a weapon of desperation when they're powers were exhausted in an encounter... nuff said.

so auto-hit on stormtroopers out to a range of 60', for an average of 14pnts of damage to all affected... and you've got 3-4 players who can do this two times per encounter. So even saying they only take out a stormtrooper a rnd that's easily 3 each round...ok I'll admit it's not an auto-kill but it might as well be. So please tell me how one stormtrooper equals CL 1(a challenging encounter for four 1st level PC's)...you still haven't answered this simple question and this is what I have a problem with. You can say increase the number, terrain etc.(basically GM fiat it until one stormtrooper is actuall CL 1) all you want to but then why even rank the opponents?

Second I think you're arguing this in the context of Star Wars...that's great but I brought it up as it concerned D&D 4e. Does D&D 4e share the same tropes as Star Wars? (well now it's got mooks and per encounter abilities) In my time playing I've never gotten that impression from the game. Exalted, yeah it's presented that way. D&D not so much.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm not at all certain that using a crossbow is avoiding acting like a wizard.

Who is the wizard? He's the guy who casts arcane spells.

The fix for the wizard's resource management problem should have something to do with using magic. Whether that be a low-damage attack spell, an at-will set of useful cantrips, or something else, is not really important. If the wizard has to give up his shtick in order to make his shtick work for more than two or three combats, something is amiss.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I've been moving per/day abilities to per/encounter in my new 3.5 game (5 players with zero 3e experience among them)

I'm interested to know exactly how you are accomplishing this. I'm experimenting with a wound point system (in my sig) and a limted spell recovery system that lets expended parties get through more battles before they need to stop and really rest.

I'm interested in seeing how other people are doing this...one reason being so that I have something to compare 4th edition's systems to.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I remember playing with a "Channeling" option, I believe, in 2e in a Ravenloft game I ran. Perhaps from Spells & Magic? I really liked that system because it was encounter based. I think I'll look through my old books to try and find it. Encounter based systems are definitely nothing new.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

To be precise, keeping track of time when it is a significant factor in the context of the overall adventure is important. Keeping track of time when it is just a peripheral parameter is not important. Why do you like keeping track of peripheral parameters for no good reason?

I, for one, am sick of keeping track of multiple magical effects that are measured in rounds/level and minutes/level. I'm not sure which of those two time frames I dislike more. The former requires me to keep track of which effects belong to which characters, so that I can increment them on the correct turns, and end them at the correct number of rounds (based on caster level). The latter requires me to keep track of time outside of combat, on the chance that the PCs wander into another combat inside a window of time defined as 1 minute x caster level of the spell.

Either way, I'd love to see per encounter effects that last for the encounter's duration or are instantaneous.