D&D 4E 4e Srd

[Henry]

If people aren't buying the books then WotC isn't making enough off of D&D and the brand is threatened.

...or, they could just not buy the books because they're put off by something new and dubious, and threaten the brand that way by the first three months generating poor sales.

I think WotC is not going to take chances, just the same as they did in the 3E release, and they are going to do whatever they can to preview the info before and immediately after it's released. They're already doing the "races and classes and worlds and monsters" previews, and the sooner they get the SRD out there, the sooner others besides WotC can support these new rules ideas by making games that use them.

 

[Wormwood]

I am assuming that most of the new 'fluff' we are seeing is going to be protected IP. Wizards could protect themselves by leaving those things out of the SRD.

 

[Orcus]

They dont need a SRD for third party publishers to make products. They just need to give us permission to use content. That doesnt have to be in the form of releasing the content through a new SRD. So it isnt necessarily a lock that the process of allowing 3rd parties to make content means that you get a fully typed out SRD like the 3E one.

I think the SRD, while it had many great aspects to it, was too much work for WotC last time. In fact, the work required to update and create additional SRD content is likely one of the biggest reasons that content from subsequent books was not included in the SRD--it simply wasnt worth WotC's time to dedicate an editor or staffer to stripping the content and posting it. And that sucked. It meant that 3rd party publishers couldnt help WotC sell those books becuase we couldnt refer to them. I think WotC this time knows that that was a mistake and that they want our help selling those books. So I see them coming up with a system that doesnt hinder that. What that means, I dont know. But I have a guess--see below.

What I, as a publisher, want is access to as much content as possible. If that means a less "pre-written" SRD that is fine with me. Because as it is people were able to just take the SRD, no retyping required, and hypertext it and voila there are the rules online.

Here is the guess I mentioned above: I would not be surprised if the "new SRD" is simply a book by book listing of what you can use and what you cant use under the OGL. I'm not sure we should expect WotC to type it all out for us again. If they do, that would be great, of course. By the way, this is exactly how it was done in the early days of the OGL. It was called the "gentleperson's agreement" and was done by email from Ryan Dancey to me and to others saying what we could and couldnt use from the core books. It was a number of months before the OGL and SRD were finalized and online. So I wouldnt be surprised if, at least at first, you see content distributed to publishers in that fashion.

I also have another guess: clearly, WotC is trying to have a big presence in the digital realm of D&D. One of the best current online things are the many killer hypertext SRDs. WotC knows that. They see those products. Heck, I've talked to WotC guys who tell me they use them in their game. I do to. So if WotC sees them, and uses them, and are trying to really make a splash in the digital arena for D&D it makes sense to me that THEY would want to be the ones providing the online rules reference rather than letting others do it by typing it all out for them.

Of course, these are just my thoughts. I have no inside info on this.

But again, dont presume that "content out to publishers for support" means "I get the rules all typed out and online for me at launch." That isnt how it happened last time.

Clark

 

[Glyfair]

But again, dont presume that "content out to publishers for support" means "I get the rules all typed out and online for me at launch." That isnt how it happened last time.

And it seems a lot of people seem to forget that the intent of the SRD is and was "content out to publishers for support." It seems a lot of players consider it "content that's free for me to use in my game."

 

[Orcus]

Dont get me wrong. I love that that stuff was on line. I used hypertext SRD content all the time. When writing adventures and stuff, I had one of those sites up and running. I never cracked a physical book.

But I am saying two things:

1. dont presume that the "type it all out for you" SRD model will be the same model they use this time, it is very time consuming, it permits others to more easily develop electronic services they themselves may want to provide, and it makes it difficult to deliver additional content to the publishers, and

2. dont expect a fully typed out SRD at 4e launch, since that isnt how it was done last time.

But i might be wrong. Maybe they will have it all typed out for us. That would be great.

Clark

 

[Ranger REG]

They dont need a SRD for third party publishers to make products. They just need to give us permission to use content. That doesnt have to be in the form of releasing the content through a new SRD. So it isnt necessarily a lock that the process of allowing 3rd parties to make content means that you get a fully typed out SRD like the 3E one.

I think the SRD, while it had many great aspects to it, was too much work for WotC last time.

I dunno. To give permission is on a case-by-case basis and that involves a long process, especially if they have to spell out which content you're requesting to use and have been granted by WotC.

The SRD provides an across-the-board content that you CAN use. If for some reasons you want access to more contents, then you can contact WotC for a more exclusive licensing agreement.

As for SRD being too much work, I find that hard to believe in this Digital/Computer Age we're living in (aka the "Copy-and-Paste Era"). Nah, it's not that but what content is legally acceptable for third-party use without harming what they're commercially selling. IOW, I find that as a cop-out excuse from WotC, especially since I'm waiting for Oriental Adventures to be included in the SRD.

 

[mcrow]

I dunno. To give permission is on a case-by-case basis and that involves a long process, especially if they have to spell out which content you're requesting to use and have been granted by WotC.

The SRD provides an across-the-board content that you CAN use. If for some reasons you want access to more contents, then you can contact WotC for a more exclusive licensing agreement.

As for SRD being too much work, I find that hard to believe in this Digital/Computer Age we're living in (aka the "Copy-and-Paste Era"). Nah, it's not that but what content is legally acceptable for third-party use without harming what they're commercially selling. IOW, I find that as a cop-out excuse from WotC, especially since I'm waiting for Oriental Adventures to be included in the SRD.

yeah, that's where I'm at.

Plus, do the third party publishers really want to have WotC feed them the changes piece by piece before an offical SRD is released? I don't think I would, get that fance new game based on what WotC told you and then find out when the SRD hits the website that it has been changed. No thanks.

 

[Ranger REG]

Personally, I hope they either wait a while before releasing the 4E SRD or release initially to the 3rd party developers with an NDA so that it isn't releasable to the public then open it up later.

At least I'm not the only one supporting a delayed release.

I have nothing against the SRD, but I want to see D&D survive as a brand

Trust me, the brand is titanium strong, figuratively speaking. I personally don't see what harm the SRD and the whole OGL movement can inflict on the D&D brand value.

The only brand that is in danger of being tarnished in the eyes of consumers is the red-n-white square d20 System brand.

and I see way too many people saying how they won't buy the books but instead get the rules for free with the SRD. If people aren't buying the books then WotC isn't making enough off of D&D and the brand is threatened.

Then they should put as little content as possible in the SRD. Leave out the character creation and advancement rules, the fluff, and just use hard mechanics with a brief explanation as possible.

Make it less a user-friendly quick-reference guide for gamers, and more of a designer's template (or development kit) for savvy game designers and publishers.

 

[Ilium]

Then they should put as little content as possible in the SRD. Leave out the character creation and advancement rules, the fluff, and just use hard mechanics with a brief explanation as possible.

Make it less a user-friendly quick-reference guide for gamers, and more of a designer's template (or development kit) for savvy game designers and publishers.

Isn't that pretty much a description of the existing SRD? Someone will still publish it electronically (which I appreciate) and nearly everyone who uses it will still buy the books.

 

[fabneme]

There were certain parts of the 3.5 PHB that weren't in the SRD, some of which were integral to play, at least until you memorized them. I doubt this edition will be any different.

Yeah, like character creation, for example...