D&D 4E 4e Srd

[Orcus]

I dont think you are understanding my post. I am not saying they will give permission on a case by case basis. I am saying, they dont have to have a fully typed out SRD for 4e launch. They just need to say: hey publishers, from your draft copies of the PHB here is what you can use and here is what you cant in the interim before we get the SRD out. That is how it was done for 3E, and 4e is even more rushed than 3E was. If they didnt have time to do it for 3E ahead of time, it will surpise me if they have it done for 4E. So dont expect a fully typed out online version of the rules available for your review. It wasnt available at launch of 3E and I dont expect it for 4E.

Clark

 

[Orcus]

yeah, that's where I'm at.

Plus, do the third party publishers really want to have WotC feed them the changes piece by piece before an offical SRD is released? I don't think I would, get that fance new game based on what WotC told you and then find out when the SRD hits the website that it has been changed. No thanks.

Maybe you werent here for the launch of 3E but that is EXACTLY how it happened. We got draft copies of the PHB and no promise that they would match the final rule books exactly. We didnt even have the MM or the DMG for a while. Seriously.

There was no SRD at launch. There was an email from Ryan Dancey addressed to me and referring to any others who wanted to make products. It said what we could use and what we couldnt. That was it.

You can say we wouldnt want that, but I am telling you that is exactly how it was last time and that is exactly what is happening so far this time.

These guys are crunching right n ow just to get things done by their pencil down date. And they are pushing it as it is. They are still revising rules for a game that is launching next May for goodness sake. Final drafts are due Oct 5 Mearls said for the PHB. That gives some time for editing, then layout, some time to get that last minute art in, to revise the cover to get sales in WalMart in the south (mark my words, I see some modification to that tiefling on the cover of the PHB, maybe I'm wrong, just a guess), time for a review of the pre-press pdfs, then off to print, then barely enough time to get it printed and shipped back and out to distributors. Believe me WotC is massively up against it right now just to get this project done. You guys need to understand the production cycle on a product of this magnitude.

I absolutely do not expect a final SRD from WotC in my hands prior to launch. We didnt have one last time, and they had WAY more lead time for 3E. Maybe I am wrong. I would love to be wrong about this and be pleasantly surprised.

And it isnt like they are going to be able to breathe a sigh of relief just cause the PHB draft is in or when it goes off to the printer (probably no later than the end of Dec/early Jan at the latest to make the ship date for launch). Because they have to repeat the SAME cycle for the MM and then the DMG. Maybe when the DMG goes off to print they can take a second and work on the SRD. But that likely wont be until February.

Clark

 

[Li Shenron]

In my case, I totally ignored the 3.0 SRD for years, since I had the books. Only when Sovelior & Sage made their great HTML-based SRD (for 3.5), I wish they had done it for 3.0 too, because I was trying it with 3.5 and found that using it on a small laptop made it faster to check up rules.

However, I played 3.5 from the SRD only. I didn't want to buy the new books because, while I was enthusiastic about the revision, I was trying to avoid the early prints which have potentially more errata. We played it 6 months, and as my enthusiasm turned to disappointment, we realized that it was not worth buying the books. If we had liked the revision, we would have certainly played it from the books and not from the SRD (and we were playing if from the SRD but using the 3.0 books all the time...).

Since then, we've played 3.0 exclusively, from the books. I still look up at the 3.5 SRD when discussing stuff in the forums.

So what can I say... in my own experience the 3.5 SRD really made me not buy the 3.5 books, and basically I missed all 3.5 supplements as well (except Unearthed Arcana, which I bought anyway after hearing lots of good things about it - but IIRC, before they put it in the SRD). Did WotC lose 3 purchases from me because of the SRD? Yes... but if I had bought the three 3.5 corebooks and found later that I disliked them, I would have been much more pissed off. I don't know if I would have been here now, wondering if I should be buying the 4e books for example.

edit: It's possible that the SRD has spoiled me... I actually think I'll probably do the same with 4e: watch the SRD before buying it. But OTOH nowadays without a preview I really don't shell out my money on anything...

 

[KarinsDad]

The industry does not need an SRD anymore.

With DND Online, people who pay will have access to electronic downloads. Or they won't.

Our gaming community is spoiled. The concept of getting free electronic download of rules was a good marketing tool for 3E, but is no longer necessary.

There is no "player entitlement" to free electronic download of rules.

WotC is a business and as a business, they should not make it easy for people to not pay for the rules. Regardless of spurious claims to the contrary, not having a free download will not hurt their business significantly. In fact, it might do the opposite.

And if they decide to create an electronic SRD, they sure as heck should not release it immediately. Give the errata a chance to dry before doing so.

 

[Li Shenron]

There is no "player entitlement" to free electronic download of rules.

Certainly not, but I don't think someone can fully play the game from the SRD alone. I certainly was able to do it for a while but only because it was a revision, and I had the 3.0 material instead with all the explanations, examples, and of course fluff.

 

[KarinsDad]

Certainly not, but I don't think someone can fully play the game from the SRD alone. I certainly was able to do it for a while but only because it was a revision, and I had the 3.0 material instead with all the explanations, examples, and of course fluff.

If the DM has a single copy of the rules, and some or all of the players use the SRD, it could actually hurt WotC sales.

 

[HellHound]

If the DM has a single copy of the rules, and some or all of the players use the SRD, it could actually hurt WotC sales.

In 25+ years of gaming, I've never played in a group that had more than one copy of the core rules until last month.

 

[Oldtimer]

The industry does not need an SRD anymore.

You are saying that the industry doesn't need third party D&D products anymore?

I beg to differ.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

As a 3rd party developer, I hope they release the 4E SRD as soon as possible...

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

WotC is a business and as a business, they should not make it easy for people to not pay for the rules. Regardless of spurious claims to the contrary, not having a free download will not hurt their business significantly. In fact, it might do the opposite.

And if they decide to create an electronic SRD, they sure as heck should not release it immediately. Give the errata a chance to dry before doing so.

The SRD has never been about "providing the rules for free for the players". Instead, it was meant to encourage third-party publishers - who would otherwise have published material for their own in-house system instead - to publish supplements for d20 (and thus, D&D), thus increasing the market share of D&D and sales of the core rules and "official" supplements. Without the SRD, there wouldn't have been a legal framework in which this had been possible.

It seems to have worked nicely, or else they wouldn't be doing it again.